Marriage of Mary To Joseph the Carpenter!

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Recently we wrote a few articles on the history of marriage i.e., when girls were married off. You can click on them articles, here and here. This article examines how old Joseph the Carpenter was, when he married Mary mother of Jesus.

1. What is the definition of Apocrypha?

If you ask any Christian what the word ‘Apocrypha’ means, they would say something along the lines, “it means it is not authentic or spurious.” In other words it is fake. This is a recent meaning. Originally ‘Apocrypha’ meant “secret” or “hidden”, this was the ancient meaning.

James Vanderkan

Apocrypha is a plural word (singular: apocryphan) that originally denoted hidden or secret writings, to be read only by initiates into a given Christian group.” [1]

Zlatko Plese

“The term apocryphan signifies “that which is hidden” or “concealed”– some intimate secret shared only by the chosen few.” [2]

Catherine M. Murphy

apocryphan- secret or hidden book, such as the Apocryphan of James (a.k.a. secret Book of James). [3]

Sylvia Francke

“We owe the term apocryphal, since apocryphan in its original connotation means ‘a secret book.” [4]

Diana Webb

“…the word apocrypha as it is a word that is greatly misunderstood. It comes from Greek and is formed from the combination of apo (away) and krytein (hide or conceal). Thus, it signifies that which is ‘hidden away’ or ‘concealed’. Apocryphan is the singular form and apocrypha the plural. These words are used to describe the nature of a certain body of ancient religious writings. The word apocrypha, like many other words has undergone a major change in meaning throughout the centuries. With regard to these ancient books, the word apocrypha ORIGINALLY MEANT A TEXT TOO SACRED AND SECRET TO BE IN EVERYONES HANDS. It needed to be hidden away and reserved for the spirituality mature. It was a term of dignity and respect. To those who revered the apocryphal books, they were ‘hidden’ because they contained teachings that were too sacred to be revealed except to the initiated.” [5]

Interesting though is how Protestant Christians are quick to reject Apocrypha books. But when we ask them, “Why do you accept the book of Hebrews?” They have no answer. Most scholars agree that they do not know who wrote the book, yet Christians still accept the book as scripture.

Mary was 12 years old when betrothed to Joseph

‘History of Joseph the Carpenter’ confirms that Mary was 12 years old when betrothed to Joseph. Chapter 3 and 4 states:

3. Now when righteous Joseph became a widower, my mother Mary, blessed, holy, and pure, was already twelve years old. For her parents offered her in the temple when she was three years of age, and she remained in the temple of the Lord nine years. Then when the priests saw that the virgin, holy and God-fearing, was growing up, they spoke to each other, saying: Let us search out a man, righteous and pious, to whom Mary may be entrusted until the time of her marriage; lest, if she remain in the temple, it happen to her as is wont to happen to women, and lest on that account we sin, and God be angry with us.

4. Therefore they immediately sent out, and assembled twelve old men of the tribe of Judah. And they wrote down the names of the twelve tribes of Israel. And the lot fell upon the pious old man, righteous Joseph. Then the priests answered, and said to my blessed mother: Go with Joseph, and be with him till the time of your marriage. Righteous Joseph therefore received my mother, and led her away to his own house. And Mary found James the Less in his father’s house, broken-hearted and sad on account of the loss of his mother, and she brought him up. Hence Mary was called the mother of James. Luke 24:10 Thereafter Joseph left her at home, and went away to the shop where he wrought at his trade of a carpenter. And after the holy virgin had spent two years in his house her age was exactly fourteen years, including the time at which he received her. [7]

Infancy Gospel of James also states she was 12 years old when betrothed to Joseph. See the link here.


2. Marriage in Ancient Jewish times

One must remember in ancient Israelite times once a girl was betrothed, sexual intimacy was allowed. There was no law against that, nor does the Bible say anything against it. So, for Mary to be betrothed, it did not mean that Joseph and Mary could not get intimate. Click on the following article I have written on ancient Jewish marriages.

3. Experts agree that Joseph was a very old man

De Robigne Mortimer Bennett says:

“The following ‘Facts about virgin Mary’ are taken from one of the Apocryphal gospels- the ‘History of Joseph the Carpenter,’ a book that was popular and believed to be genuine in the so-called Evangelical of the Church. It is reproduced here from the ‘Revelations of Antichrist:’ Joseph was a widower with four sons and two daughters, all married but James and Judas. Joseph was a Priest as well as a Carpenter, but lived mostly by the latter trade. Mary had been brought up in the temple till she was twelve years old, when the priests sought to intrust her to the care of some pious old man who wanted a wife. So they assembled twelve old men, who raffled for Mary. The ex-priest and carpenter won and was betrothed to her at once, the marriage to be postponed until she reached a suitable age. But he took her to his house and kept her two years, when she became a mother by the Holy Ghost.

When Joseph discovered the condition Mary was in he became sorely troubled, and could not eat or drink for a whole day. He thought of hushing up the scandal by putting her away secretly. (It is not said whether he suspected his son James, who was most tenderly attached to his prospective step-mother. When she first came she found him broken-hearted at the recent loss of his own mother, but the advent of a lovely maiden, who, though some years his junior, assumed the relations of a mother to him, soon assuaged his grief; and she, caring for him as a loving step-mother knows how, became known as ‘the mother of James,’ even before she became a wife to his father. The absence of Joseph, who had to be away at work at his trade, to say nothing of his age, which was then ninety-two, no doubt tended to strengthen the ties between the son and the female guardian.) Joseph was not long left to remain in trouble about the condition of Mary. In the Midst of his distress he fell asleep at noonday, and had a dream, in which Gabriel appeared to him and explained the mystery of the Immaculate Conception. That was enough; happiness was restored. The angelic friend had tied up the storm. The far-off magi made haste to welcome the new-born king of the Jews. But the wicked Herod was wroth with them for not telling where the infant was, so he might go and worship him also. Jesus grew up and worked with his reputed father Joseph at the Carpenter trade, and lived in sweet accord with his two half-brothers, until the death of their father Joseph, who lived to the ripe age of 111 years. These statements should undoubtedly be taken with many grains of allowance.” [8]

De Robigne Mortimer Bennett says that the book ‘History of Joseph the Carpenter,’ was believed and genuine by Early Evangelical Church. Not just that, he also mentions when Joseph married Mary, she was 12 years old and he was 90 years old. At the end of his statement on ‘History of Joseph the Carpenter,’ he states, “These statements should undoubtedly be taken with many grains of allowance.” Here, he himself agrees that the statements where it mentions that Joseph was 90-year-old when he married 12 Mary is true, and should be accepted.

Bernard L. Fontana also mentions that Mary was 12 years old and Joseph 90 years old when married:

“Thanks to the apocrypha writings, which inspired many artists over the ages, the popular belief became widespread that Joseph had first married when he was forty years old and fathered six children by his wife before she died when he was eighty-nine years old. The youngest of his child was said to be James the Less, ‘Christ’s brother.’ This tradition holds that Joseph was ninety years old when he went to Jerusalem to join other candidates seeking the hand of the twelve- to fourteen year old Mary in Marriage.” [9]


4. Early Church Fathers Believed Joseph was 80 to 90 years old when he married 12-year-old Mary

The very advanced age of Joseph, marrying Mary, was true and accepted by most early Church Fathers. Reverend Jeremiah Jones writes about 2 to 3 pages long that Infancy Protevangelion of James was accepted by Early Church Fathers as truthful account of Mary and Joseph’s marriage. If one reads the Infancy Gospel of James (Protevangelion of James), in Chapter 8 it says that Mary was married to Joseph when she was 12 years old.

“…His eldest son was James, surnamed Oblias—that he begat him when he was about forty years old: after him he had another son named Jose, then Simeon and Judas, and then his two daughters Mary and Salome: after his wife’s death he continued many years a widower, and about fourscore years old married Mary. Besides Epiphanius, several other of the Greek fathers have given into this same opinion, viz. Hilary, Chrysostome, Cyrill, Euthyymius, Theophylact, Cecumenius, and generally, as bishop Peaterson says: ‘all Latin fathers till Ambrose, and the Greeks afterward; from which it is very evident that the account of Joseph’s age and family, which is in the Gospel of the Birth Mary, and the Protevangelion of James, met with very general credit among ancient Christians.” [10]

Jeremiah Jones continues:

“I might, add here, that the learned annalist cardinal Baronius, in his surprising apologies for the Virgin Mary, (…) cites many of the fathers as giving credit to its accounts, and particularly as to that of her being brought at three years of age to the temple, and devoted to its service, (Evang. Mar. c. 4. 6. Protevang. Jacob. C. 7.) and that she continued there eleven years. He says it is testified by Euodius, Gregory Nyssene, Damascene, Germanus bishop of Constantinople, Andreas Cretensis, George Bishop of Nicomedia, and others. See Apparat. Ad Annal. No. 48. And Casaubon’s reflections upon this Exercit. 1. Contr. Baron. Ad eund. Numer.” [10]

Charles Burlingame Waite, was a United States lawyer and a jurist, he also cites Epiphanies that Joseph was 80 years old when he married Mary,

Joseph was very old when he married Mary, and had been many years a widower; that he was the brother of Clophas, the son of James, surnamed Panther; that he had his first wife of the tribe of Judah, and by her six children, to wit, four sons and two daughters. His eldest son was James, surnamed Oblias, (this probably taken from Eusebius, Ecc, Hist. 2. 23), that he begat him when he was about forty years old; after him he had another son named Jose, then Simeon and Judas, and then his two daughters Mary and Salome: after his wife’s death, he continued many years a widower, and about fourscore years old, married Mary.”- Epiph. Haeres. 78, see. 8. [11]

As we have read, most early church fathers believed Mary was married off when she was 12 years old and Joseph the carpenter was a very old man. Here is the list of fathers who believed that Joseph was fourscore years old when he married 12-year-old Mary:

1. Epiphanius (310 – 403AD)
2. Hilary (Hilarius) of Poitiers (300 – 368AD)
3. John Chrysostom (Born between 344 and 349 – Died 407 AD)
4. Cyril of Alexandria (376 – 444 AD)
5. Saint Euthymius the Great (377 – 473 AD)
6. Theophylact of Ohrid (also known as Theophylact of Bulgaria) (1055 – 1107 AD)
7. Cecumenius
8. Eusebius (263 – 339 AD)


5. Did Mary stay a Virgin whole her life?

Christians might say that she stayed virgin whole her life and it is insignificant if Joseph was an old man or not. But that is not correct, if we read Gospel of Matthew, Chapter 1 verse 25 it clearly says that Joseph had sexual intimacy with Mary after Jesus was born.

But he did not have sexual relations with her until her son was born. And Joseph named him Jesus. – Matthew 1:25

The above verse shows that they were not intimate until Jesus was born. Before someone accuses me of twisting this verse, let’s see what their own Christian experts have to say on the passage. Commentaries on the New Testament Matthew by Charles H. Talbert

“Did Mary have sexual relations with Joseph after Jesus’s birth? Among the earliest witnesses, Tertulian (Mar. 4.19) and Irenaeus (Haer. 3.16, 21, 22) say yes.” [12]

Tony Coffey

“…Matthew stated that Joseph had no sexual relations with Mary ‘until she gave birth to a son.’This tells us that after Jesus birth, Joseph and Mary had a normal sexual relationship like any other couple. The point needs to be made that there was nothing unholy about Mary and Joseph having sex. How could there be? Marriage was designed by God, with sex as one of its blessings. It must be remembered that Joseph and Mary were engaged to be married. Like any engaged couple, they may have discussed, among other matters, having children. Such a discussion would not have been unholy. Sex within the bounds of marriage has the endorsement of God. The notion of marriage without sex is the opposite of what scriptures teach: ‘Marriage should be honoured by all, and the marriage bed kept pure, for God will judge the adulterer and all the sexually immoral’ (Hebrews 13:4). The Apostle Paul was very outspoken about the place of sex in marriage and the mutual obligation of both husband and wife to fulfil the sexual desires of their partner…” [13]

American New Testament scholar Ben Witherinton III:

“Matthew 1:25 has caused no end of theological debate over the centuries. Joseph is said to ‘take’ his wife, ‘but he was not knowing her until she gave birth to a son.’ This seems to reinforce what was said in Matthew 1:18 and implies that Joseph abstained from sexual intercourse with Mary until Jesus was born. The verb here ‘he was not knowing’ (eginosken) is in the imperfect and stresses a specific period of time after which he was ‘knowing’ her in the biblical sense of sexual intercourse. As Matthew 17:9 and its similar construction show, a negative statement followed by ‘until which time’ always implies that the negated action will take place after the allotted time (indicated by the participle) is up. The end of the time is indicated by the aorist verb ‘gave birth’ (eteken). Therefore, it is most likely that this verse rules out the idea of Mary’s perpetual Virginity being part of Matthew’s theology.” [14]

Phil Moore

“Some Christian traditions see Mary as a ‘perpetual virgin’ who never had sex with Joseph. I find this impossible to reconcile with the straightforward teaching of Matthew 1:25; 12:46; 13:55.” [15]

The NIV Application Commentary by Matthew J. Wilkins also agrees that the verse in Matthew 1:25 is talking about sexual intercourse taking place after Jesus’s birth.

“…(1:25). The delicate way of Matthew phrases this expression (lit., ‘he was not knowing her’) was a common way of referring to abstaining from sexual intercourse in both Hebrew and Greek. Sexual abstinence maintained Joseph and Mary’s ritual purification the pregnancy as well as ensured that Jesus was virgin-born. But this is not a hint of continued celibacy after Jesus birth. The word ‘until’ most naturally means that Mary and Joseph had normal marital sexual relations after Jesus birth, from which other children were born (see 12:46, 13:55).” [16]

6. Holy Spirit Impregnated Mary when she was 12 – 14 years old?

One would seem shocked by the title of this section. But this is true, if one reads certain passages in the Bible, one would realise that sexuality was involved in Mary’s pregnancy. Let’s have a read of the verses:

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. John 3:16

The word ‘beget’, begotten’ means:

The concise Oxford dictionary of current English (1911)

“beget v.t. (-tt-, -got, -gotten). Procreate (usu. Of father, sometimes of father and mother, cf bear);…” [17]

Merriam-Webster’s Collegiate Dictionary

“…begotten: (1) : OFFSPRING (2) : the entire progeny of a male animal b: lineage…” [18]

Chambers’s twentieth century dictionary of the English language (1903):

“Beget, be-get, v.t. to produce or cause : to generate : to produce as an effect, to cause :– pr.p beget’ting; pa.t. begat’, begot : pa.p begot , begot’ten. –n. Beget’ter, one who begets: a father : the agent that occasions or originates anything…” [19]

What are we supposed to me make of statements like this? That God begets a Son? This is exactly the same as human by human or animal by animal relationship. We as Muslims object to the word ‘begotten’ because begetting is an animal act, belonging to the lower animal functions of sex. How can Christians attribute such a lowly capacity to God? The words are crystal clear; anybody reading the above mentioned verse would straight away believe/think that Yahweh had sexual intimacy with Mary and this is the case. The language of the next verse clearly shows sexual intimacy.

And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Spirit shall COME UPON YOU, and the power of the Highest shall OVERSHADOW YOU: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of you shall be called the Son of God. – Luke 1:35

In Luke 1:35 when the words ‘COME UPON YOU’ is used this sounds exactly like husband come upon his wife.
There are Christians that believe that Yahweh had sexual intimacy with Mary, not just that, but also Mary became a WIFE of God (Na’uzubillah). Here is one of the commentaries on Luke;

God, the Father of our spirits, became the father of our Lord Jesus Christ according to the flesh. Hence, the Father saith concerning him ‘Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.’ We are informed in the first chapter of Luke, that Mary was chosen by the Father as a choice virgin, through whom he begat Jesus. The angel said unto the Virgin Mary, ‘The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore, also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.’ After the power of the Highest had overshadowed Mary, and she had by that means conceived, she related the circumstance to her cousin Elizabeth in the following words: ‘He that is Mighty hath done to me great things; and holy is His name.’ It seems from this relation that the Holy Ghost accompanied ‘the highest’ when he overshadowed the Virgin Mary and begat Jesus; and from this circumstance some have supposed that the body of Jesus was begotten of the Holy Ghost without the instrumentality of the immediate presence of the Father. There is no doubt that the Holy Ghost came upon Mary to sanctify her, and make her holy, and prepare her to endure the glorious presence of ‘the Highest,’ that when ‘He’ should overshadow her she might conceive, being filled with the Holy Ghost; hence the angel said, as recorded in Matthew, ‘That which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost;’ that is, the Holy Ghost gave her strength to abide the presence of the father without being consumed; but it was the personage of the father who begat the body of Jesus; and for this reason Jesus is called ‘the Only begotten of the Father;’ that is, the only one in this world whose fleshly body was begotten by the Father. There were millions of sons and daughters whom He begat before the foundation of this world, but they were spirits, and not bodies of flesh and bones; whereas, both the spirit and body of Jesus were begotten by the Father- the spirit having been begotten in heaven many ages before the tabernacle was begotten upon the earth.

The fleshly body of Jesus required a Mother as well as a father. Therefore, the father and Mother of Jesus, according to the flesh, must have been associated together in capacity of Husband and Wife; hence the Virgin Mary must have been, for the time being, the LAWFUL WIFE OF GOD THE FATHER : we use the term LAWFUL wife, because it would be blasphemous in the highest degree to say that He overshadowed her or begat the saviour unlawfully. It would have been unlawful for any man to have interfered with Mary, who was already espoused to Joseph ; for such a heinious crime would have subjected both the guilty parties to death, according to the law of Moses. But God having had the most perfect right to do with His own creation, according to His holy will and PLEASURE He had a lawful right to overshadow the virgin Mary in the capacity of a HUSBAND, and beget a Son, although she was espoused to another; for the law which He gave to govern men and women was not intended to govern Himself, or to prescribe rules for his own conduct. It was also lawful in Him, after having thus dealt with Mary, to give her to Joseph her espoused husband. Whether God the Father gave Mary to Joseph for time only, or for time and eternity, we are not informed. In as much as god was the First HUSBAND to HER, it may be that he only gave her to be the wife of Joseph while in this mortal state, and that He intended after the resurrection to again take her as one of his own wives to raise up immortal spirits in eternity. [20]

Also, David Jay Jordan a Christian comments on the word “OVERSHADOW”, he writes:

And if you didn’t know it the word ‘overshadowed’ is just another delicate discreet way of saying a man got on top of a woman, casting his shadow over her, and entered her with his penis and ‘made love’ to her. This is just the good old-fashioned missionary way of producing babies. The woman gets ‘overshadowed’…or as King Solomon via the Holy Spirit said… His left hand is under my head, and his right hand doth embrace me. (Song of Solomon 2: 6) Because her lover is over top of her…. and he is overshadowing her …..’and his banner over me was love’ (2: 4).

Do clouds penetrate into the womb ?…. Does gas produce babies ? The answer obviously NO. The Lord created sperm to break thru the egg of a woman to combine with the cell of a woman to reproduce into a new body for a new soul. That’s the Lord’s biology, that’s His embryology. That’s the Lord’s sexuality.
Mathew 1:20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is CONCEIVED IN her is of the Holy GhostAnd the conception happened INSIDE Mary’s womb. Luke 2:21 And when eight days were accomplished for the circumcising of the child, his name was called JESUS, which was so named of the angel before he was CONCEIVED IN THE WOMB.

I didn’t add other points he brought up, I think it is distasteful. Read the rest here.

Brown Ogwuma says something on this as well:

“It seems that, like the adult human male, the Holy Spirit who fathered Jesus is also more sexually attracted to younger females than older ones. And for 90 years old Joseph having other children with Mary, who was so young as to be his grand-daughter, he must have been a busy old man, who apparently was endowed with sexual prowess.” [21]

Addendum:

“Mary, Spouse of the Holy Spirit”, Michael Scanlan, New Covenant, June 1997:

“Today, I sense a new oneness, or completion, in my spiritual life AS I SEEK TO JOIN MARY AND THE HOLY SPIRIT IN MY PRAYER. I’ve also seen this new fullness and vitality flow into student groups on our campus and into prayer groups as they’ve celebrated THE SPOUSAL UNITY OF OUR LADY AND THE HOLY SPIRIT…. Beginning with the Miraculous Medal apparitions at Rue de Bac in Paris and continuing through this century, Our Lady has appeared to countless people throughout the world. Her apparitions at Lourdes and Fatima have received the highest Church approval, but Beauraing, Banneux, Knox, Akita, Managua, Amsterdam, La Salette and Kibeho have all been endorsed by their local bishops…[Saint Maximilian Kolbe’s] secret was an intimate relationship with the ‘Immaculata’ in the power of the Holy Spirit. …
The saint starts with Mary’s revelation of her identity to Bernadette at Lourdes:
“‘I am the Immaculate Conception.’ Kolbe points out that Mary didn’t say, ‘I WAS immaculately conceived,’ as if it was a past event and she just wanted to re- enforce the fact of HER SINLESS CONCEPTION. Mary identifies herself as the Immaculate Conception in the present tense, Kolbe says, to show that, from her conception forward, HER SPIRIT HAS BEEN TOTALLY UNITED AND TOTALLY SUBJECTED TO THE HOLY SPIRIT…
“Thus MARY BECAME THE SPOUSE OF THE HOLY SPIRIT WHEN SHE WAS CONCEIVED, not years later when she gave her consent to the angel Gabriel and conceived Jesus by the power of the Holy Spirit. Kolbe maintains that THIS SPOUSAL UNION IS SUCH THAT YOU CAN’T HAVE ONE WITHOUT THE OTHER: THE HOLY SPIRIT IS PRESENT WHENEVER MARY IS PRESENT. Further, HE MAKES OUR LADY PRESENT WHEREVER AND WHENEVER HE ACTS.” Scanlan says he doesn’t claim to fully understand this mysterious unity, but he “KNOWS THAT ANY ATTEMPT TO DIVORCE MARY AND THE HOLY SPIRIT IMPOVERISHES PEOPLE SPIRITUALLY“. It’s only to the extent to which Mary and the Holy Spirit are together in our hearts, minds and spirits that we can experience the power and grace of their spousal union… I pray the De Montfort Consecration to the Immaculate Heart of Mary every morning. … I SPECIFICALLY INVITE OUR LADY, MY MOTHER AND QUEEN, TO OVERSEE, GUIDE AND PROTECT MY DAY, CONSECRATING THE VALUE OF ALL I DO TO HER. At the same time, I invite the Holy Spirit to guide, empower, enlighten and inspire my day…Since I’ve started consciously uniting Mary and the Holy Spirit, I have experienced new blessings of infused prayer and the presence of the Lord Jesus and the Father…Both Mary and the Holy Spirit are given to us and for us as advocates. Both Mary and the Holy Spirit serve to mediate grace in our lives” (“Mary, Spouse of the Holy Spirit”, Michael Scanlan, New Covenant, June 1997, page 16 – 18)

Pope Leo XIII, in his Encycl. Divinum illud, May 9, 1897 stated that Mary “is justly called his spouse”:

“…Unite, then, Venerable Brethren, your prayers with Ours, and at your exhortation let all Christian peoples add their prayers also, invoking the powerful and ever-acceptable intercession of the Blessed Virgin. You know well the intimate and wonderful relations existing between her and the Holy Spirit, so that SHE IS JUSTLY CALLED HIS SPOUSE. Her intercession was of great avail both in the mystery of the Incarnation and in the coming of the Holy Spirit upon the Apostles….” (Papal Teachings: Our Lady, Selected and arranged by The Benedictine Monks of Solesmes, Imprimatur: His Eminence, Richard Cardinal Cushing, Archbishop of Boston, May 31, 1961, page 150)

Pope Pius XII, in an address to the women of Italian Catholic Action, July 13, 1958 said:

“There is a Woman, –you know it, — upon whom God willed to fix His eyes with infinite tenderness, as He had destined her to be His Mother. His all-powerful love kept her virginal glory intact, and in addition HE BESTOWED ON HER THE CROWN OF A SPOUSE AND THE DIGNITY OF A MOTHER. Look on Mary as your model, unsurpassed and unsurpassable. Look on Mary, the Lily of the Valley, who, nevertheless, through the operation of the Holy Spirit bore fruit and gave Jesus to the world. If you look on her and imitate her, your freshness shall remain unblemished; your perfume unaltered; and your attractiveness unchangeable.” (Papal Teachings: Our Lady, Selected and arranged by The Benedictine Monks of Solesmes, Imprimatur: His Eminence, Richard Cardinal Cushing, Archbishop of Boston, May 31, 1961, page 458)

Pope Pius XII also taught that Mary was the “beloved spouse of the Holy Spirit”:

“And Paradise recognized that she [Mary] was really worthy of receiving of honor, glory and rule, because she is full of grace, holier, more beautiful, more exalted, incomparably more so than the greatest saints and angels, taken individually or all together; because, as the first-born daughter of the Father, the perfect mother of the Word, the BELOVED SPOUSE OF THE HOLY SPIRIT, she is related in virtue of the Hypostatic Union to the whole Most Holy Trinity….” (Papal Teachings: Our Lady, Selected and arranged by The Benedictine Monks of Solesmes, Imprimatur: His Eminence, Richard Cardinal Cushing, Archbishop of Boston, May 31, 1961, page 267 – 268)

 

A Catholic author states:

“For that reason this evil [decomposition] belongs to that class of human defects which for reasons analogous to those in Christ, are absolutely excluded from Mary also, as being inconsistent with her dignity and position and especially with THE CONSECRATION OF HER WHOLE BEING BY ITS INTIMATE UNION WITH CHRIST AS SPOUSE AND MOTHER. Hence the words from the psalm: ‘Nor wilt thou give Thy holy one to see corruption,’ must of necessity be extended to Mary also” (Mariology, Scheeben, page 158 – 159 – “nihil obstat” by Innocentius Swoboda, O. F. M. Censor Librorum, “imprimatur” by Josephus E. Ritter, S.T.D., Archiepiscopus)

This same author continues and states:

“God’s honor required that He bestow upon His mother such holiness as would enable her worthily to fulfill the service she was to render Him and that through this most intimate association she might be brought to a holiness like to His own. Moreover, the love of God, whereby Mary in an unparalleled way becomes daughter, BRIDE, AND SANCTUARY OF THE DIVINITY, requires that she be perfectly prepared for this association with God and, to that end, be raised to a participation in His perfection” (Mariology, Scheeben, page 4)

On June 25, 1946, at Marienfried, Germany, the “Virgin Mary” declared that she was the “permanent bride of the Holy Spirit”:

“I am the Great Mediatrix of Graces. The Father wants the world to recognize this rank of His maidservant. People must believe that I, as the PERMANENT BRIDE OF THE HOLY SPIRIT, am the faithful Mediatrix of All Graces. My sign is emerging. God wills it thus. Only my children recognize it as it reveals itself in secrecy, and they praise the Eternal One for it. Today I cannot yet reveal my power to the whole world. I must withdraw with my children. In secrecy I will perform miracles on the souls until the number of sacrifices has become full. It is up to you to shorten the days of darkness. Your prayers and sacrifices will shatter the image of the beast. Then I can reveal myself to the whole world for the greater honor of the Almighty One. Choose my sign so that the triune One may soon be adored and honored by all. Pray and make sacrifices through me! Pray always! Pray the rosary! Ask everything from the Father through my Immaculate Heart!” (“Call of the Ages”, Petrisko, page 303 – 304)

The above information was taken from http://www.cuttingedge.org, from an article titled “Virgin Mary: Spouse Of The Holy Spirit“.

Kontakion One from the Byzantine Rite, Akathist to the Theotokos calls the Mother of God, “Bride unwedded” (this tradition attributed it to St. Romanos the Melodist, who died in A.D. 556):

“Kontakion, Tone 8:
To Thee the Champion Leader we Thy servants dedicate a feast of victory and of thanksgiving, as ones rescued out of suffering, O Theotokos. But as Thou art one with might which is invincible, from all dangers that can be do Thou deliver us, that we may cry unto Thee: rejoice Thou BRIDE UNWEDDED.” (27 марта 2015 г.) http://orthochristian.com/78209.html and https://www.fisheaters.com/akathisthymn.html )

We can all agree with the evidence presented that Mary’s pregnancy involved sexual intimacy with the Holy Spirit. This was not my view, but rather Christians who are admitting such blasphemous thing, that God had sexual intimacy with Mary for Jesus to be born.


7. Age of Consent in European & American History

Early marriages in American States and European countries prior the 20th century, click on the article here for more info.

8. Questions for Christians

1. Why was Mary pregnant at such young age by the Holy Spirit?
2. Why did Jesus not speak against (or abolish) child marriages?
3. How come Paul says nothing against such marriages?
4. Why did Yahweh not say anything against Mary’s marriage with Joseph?
5. Why did Yahweh bless the marriage of Joseph, who was 80 – 90 years old at least, with 12-year-old Mary?


Conclusion:
I believe everything presented supports the fact that Mary married Joseph the carpenter when she was 12 years old and Joseph was at least 80 to 90 years old at the time. I went over and defined the word ‘Apocrypha’ as we have read already, it originally denoted ‘Hidden’ or ‘secret’. Moreover, I gave a reference from the Gospel of Matthew that said after Jesus’s birth, Joseph and Mary had normal sexual life. Lastly, the references quoted from some of the early Church fathers that Mary married Joseph when she was 12 years old, some of them believed even though Mary was married to Joseph, she stayed a Virgin whole her life. Their argument that Mary stayed a virgin, does not hold any weight when the Gospel of Matthew makes it clear that there was sexual intimacy between Mary and Joseph after Jesus (p) was born. Whatever opinion some of the early church fathers held on Mary staying a virgin whole her life, Matthew 1:25 negates their claims.

Disclaimer: Whatever is given in this article is just showing of the mirror to the Liars/deceivers and other missionary haters of Islam, otherwise neither I nor any Muslim can ever think of anything close to it. Christian brethren and sisters do understand that this article is in no way attacking the Christian faith. The article was mainly written in response to the double standards of Christian missionaries. No Muslim can be a Muslim if he/she has any such imagination about Mary, the purest and greatest woman of all.

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References:

[1] The Meaning of the Dead Sea Scrolls By James VanderKam, Peter Flint chapter 8
[2] Poetics of the Gnostic Universe: Narrative And Cosmology in the Apocryphon of John By Zlatko Plese page 7
[3] John the Baptist: Prophet of Purity for a New Age By Catherine M. Murphy page 161
[4] The Tree of Life and the Holy Grail: Ancient and Modern Spiritual Paths and the mystery of rennes-le-Chatean By Sylvia Francke page 6
[5] Forgotten Women of God By Diana Webb page xiv
[7] http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0805.htm
[8] The Semitic gods and the Bible. Being over three hundred pages from “The gods and religions of ancient and modern times.” Written while unjustly imprisoned (1912) By D. M. Bennet (De Robigne Mortimer Bennett) Page 605
[9] Bernard L. Fontana A Gift of Angels: The Art of Mission San Xavier Del Bac page 258
[10] A new and full method of settling the canonical authority of the New Testament. To which is subjoined A Vindication of the Former Part of St. Matthew’s Gospel from Mr. Whiston’s Charge of Dislocations By Reverend Jeremiah Jones, volume 2, page 116
[11] History of the Christian religion to the year two hundred [Published 1881] By Charles B. Waite page 131
[12] Commentaries on the New Testament Matthew by Charles H. Talbert page 34
[13] Answers to Questions Catholics Are Asking By Tony Coffey page 209 – 210
[14] The Indelible Image: The Theological and Ethical Thought World of the New Testament By Ben Witherington III. Volume 1, page 653
[15] Straight to the Heart of Matthew: 60 Bite-Sized Insights By Phil Moore page 24 Footnote 9
[16] The NIV Application Commentary: Matthew Michael J. Wilkins page 82
[17] The concise Oxford dictionary of current English [1911] page 74
[18] Merriam-Webster’s Collegiate Dictionary: [Eleventh Edition] page 525
[19] Chambers’s twentieth century dictionary of the English language  [1903] page 85
[20] The Seer [1853] by Orson Pratt page 158
[21] Playing God: Intuitive Reflections and Discourse on Life By Brown Ogwuma page 98

 

Marriage of Joseph the Carpenter and Mary Mother of Jesus

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88 Responses »

  1. Thank you very much for another well-researched article!

    So, according to Christian sources, we have the following:

    1. About 90-year old Joseph the Capenter marrying (connoting ‘having sex’ with) the then Mary who (according to the modern secular standards with which they accuse Islam) was A CHILD ! Thus, Joseph the Capenter was a pedophile and a child-molester!

    2. The so-called Holy Spirit, who was god according Christians, had sex with A CHILD! A very very old god (age: billions of years? trillions? eternity?) had sex with a HUMAN CHILD! talk about grotesque paganism!

    Thus, the Holy Spirit is the model pedophile and child molester! And Jesus was a product of the crime of pedophilia!!

    The third person of the trinitarian god was a pedophile, the second person of this triune god was a product of the crime of pedophilia and the first person of this tripartite god approves the act of pedophilia (as he no where disapproves it) !!

    All these according to Christians own sources!!

    • There is no reason to suppose that Joseph was 90 years old. He had to be active to take Mary to Egypt. If he was a widower with children when he married Mary he could have been in his late 30’s, not young but still able bodied. As for the assertion that the Holy Spirit had sex with Mary, that is a pagan idea, not a Christian one. Jesus was conceived by a miracle, not by sexual intercourse. Sources which claim the conception of Jesus was sexual are perverted.

  2. Reblogged this on God is not Triune and commented:
    Joseph the Carpenter was 90 years old when he married 12 Year old Mary Mother of Jesus, this is according to Early Church Fathers.

    • Oh my word. This is terrible. How can you write these lies.
      1. No one knows how old Mary and Joseph were. The sources you quote are not canonical, trusted by the church or even trusted by most historians.
      2. The Holy Spirit did not have sex with anyone.
      3. I worry about your understanding of pedophilia
      4. Criticism of Mohammed (there are many, he seems very licentious, war mongering and empire building, perhaps this is why he decided to set up Islam) is not a criticism of Islam (though there are many).

      • hi Academic Scholar

        First point, I didn’t write no lies. Mr Academic at-least try back it up with some evidence. Don’t make baseless claims.
        1. True, the sources are not canonical, nor did I make that claim if you read it. Actually the sources I provided are TRUSTED by some of the early Church fathers. I recommend you read my article again.
        2. Well the verses I provided definitely showed that sexual intercourse was involved.
        The rest of your rhetoric has nothing to do with this article.

      • 1. Some of the early church fathers back those non-canonical gospels. Christian belief is not based on what early Chruch Fathers state but on what the Gospels state. Certainly we can learn from some of what they say, but the Bible is primary, these other apocryphal gosples are not reliable (and yes I know what the name ,means). The Early Most scholars do not, most Christians do not. The fact is that we do not know how old Mary and Joseph were. They could have been however old you suggest, and I would have no problem with that. But the fact is that we don’t know.

      • Also it is not sex because the holy spirit didn’t sleep with Mary. Crucially Mary took this gift from God gladly. Muhammed married someone who was a gift from another nation, and the 9 year old had little chpoice in the matter.

      • Born to a virgin. Virgin meaning no sexual relationship. The angel was telling Mary you will be pregnant. The Holy Spirit has no genitals lol. And it didn’t become flesh until Jesus. Debunked your article.

      • The Bible was edited many times since the council of Nicaea and many chapters were omitted and other Mithraism chapters were replaced. The Bibles that were approved by the Vatican only were allowed to be published. Who ever disobeyed the Pope was burned alive n the stake. The Genealogy of David to Mary, Joseph (son of Jacob son of Matthan son of Eliazar son of Elihud, ) was born in 90 BC in Bethlehem and died in July 20th AD in Nazareth. Now you , kindly, can calculate the age of Joseph when he ” Married” the Virgin Mary.

        It will not be without interest to recall here, unreliable though they are, the lengthy stories concerning St. Joseph’s marriage contained in the apocryphal writings. When forty years of age, Joseph married a woman called Melcha or Escha by some, Salome by others; they lived 49 years together and had six children, two daughters and four sons, the youngest of whom was James (the Less, “the Lord’s brother”). A year after his wife’s death, as the priests announced through Judea that they wished to find in the tribe of Judah a respectable man to espouse Mary, then 12 to 14 years of age. Joseph, who was at the time 90 years old, went up to Jerusalem among the candidates; a miracle manifested the choice God had made of Joseph, and two years later the Annunciation took place. These dreams, as St. Jerome styles them, from which many a Christian artist has drawn his inspiration (see, for instance, Raphael’s Espousals of the Virgin), are void of authority; they nevertheless acquired in the course of ages some popularity; in them some ecclesiastical writers sought the answer to the well-known difficulty arising from the mention in the Gospel of “the Lord’s brothers”; from them also popular credulity has, contrary to all probability, as well as to the tradition witnessed by old works of art, retained the belief that St. Joseph was an old man at the time of marriage with the Mother of God. (www.newadvent.org)

      • Applying today’s moral idiosyncrasies to other cultures centuries or thousands of years ago is a logical fallacy, the historical fallacy.
        We haven’t a leg to stand on. Fornication and adultery are popular sports. Sexual deviancy and perversion have been legalized.

  3. I really need to ask these question form fellow christian.
    1. What is john second name ie john who, Mattew who?
    2. Where they among the disciples?
    3. Did they meet jesus christ?
    4. Did you christian believe in the book of st barnabas?

  4. “If you ask any Christian what the word ‘Apocrypha’ means they would say something along the lines “it means it is not authentic or spurious.”

    marks gospel IS dated to the 3RD CENTURY.the story about temple destruction is found in a manuscript NOT dated to the first century. the manuscript is dated to a time when christians were being evil and horrible to EACH other and using the stories in the gospels to make thier case against each other.christians were doing “amagedon” to each other. jews had their reasons why the temple was going to be destroyed and jews and christians were bullying each other. daniel ALREADY made temple destruction prediction.

    matthew writes in his story that an angel CAME down like a glowing christmas tree and koed the guards.
    the christian says , ” this is going back to the first century”

    matthew has no first century manuscript

    gospel of thomas has jesus killing a child.

    christians some how know for a fact that the story in thomas is a late 2nd century CREATION. wrITTING FIRST , STORY AFTER. no STORY BEFORE WRITING.

    so for the christian , the story has NO oral tradition going back to the first century

    the story is not, according to the pauline polythiest, FROM THE first century but WRITTEN in second century century christian language.

    christians ACCEPT that the STORIES in the hebrew bible are WRITTEN in a HEBREW from a different century and NOT THE origin al hebrew WHEN THE story was FIRST TALKED ABOUT.

    so mark can have a jesus say x, y z, but when thomas has a jesus do x, y z it is rejected on fallacious reasoning.

    luke has stories about mary
    SCHOLARS say that the STORIES better fit the second century because praise of mary STARTS in the second century
    no manuscripts for luke in EARLY FIRST century

    • What a load of rubbish. If you presume that Jesus predicted the temple destruction then Matthew, Mark, Luke and John were all written before 45AD. That’s 15 years after Jesus death. The Gospel of Thomas was written around 150AD and so was written 120 years after Jesus’ death. Which are you gonna trust?
      Also, the miracle you quote (and don’t quote mine me) from Thomas is one reason Scholars argue it is unreliable. Let me explain. All of Jesus’ miracles in the canonical Gospels link perfectly with his teachings. In the Gospel of Thomas (and other Apocryphal gospels) they tend to have miracles which don’t match Jesus’ teaching, like the one you quote. For this reason it is suggested that such stories are made up.
      Please don’t lie.
      Trust me I’m a professor in this.

    • Your information is so mixed up- sorry – not credible.
      The New Testament was written in Greek not Aramaic or Hebrew, but originally in Greek.
      The earliest fragment found is dated 135 AD, a mere 35 years after the death of John who wrote it.
      And recently more scriptures have come to light dated between The resurrection and John’s death. They are being examined right now.

      The Old Testament was written in Hebrew and some in Aramaic, but around 200 BC it was transcribed into Greek because the Empire was Greek speaking. And more people could converse in Greek as a common language. We have those scrolls available to us thru the finds at Qumran. So in fact Jesus read the scriptures from a Greek manuscript most likely. Unless there were Hebrew scrolls still available but wiped out with the destruction of the temple in 70 AD.

      None of the Gospel stories overly praise Mary. As it should be. She is honoured as the Mother of Jesus.

  5. the lady is a virgin and she is living with her husband in his house? who paid these gospel writers to write such dumb stories?

  6. This article is complete non-sense.

    • Could you explain why this article is ‘nonsense’ ??

      • If you would have just read the scriptures you would find that Mary gave birth to children AFTER the birth of Jesus the Messiah…..so Joseph was still at an age where he could father children….Mary was no longer a virgin after giving birth to Jesus….Isaiah the prophet prophesied thousands of years before that the Messiah child would be born of a virgin……hence he spoke: a child is BORN but a Son is GIVEN….it spoke of both Jesus humanity (child) as well as His Divinity (Son)…….We are ALL God’s creatures…….But God wants to relate on an intimate level with us…”Sonship”….He gave His ONLY Son, to receive MANY sons to Himself

      • Dear Kaleef, that you have to ask why your article is “nonsense” as a writer, is sad. When you put pen to paper and write such things, you then become responsible for the words and their effect on others. And so you must do credible research within both Islam and Christianity and write from a NON-BIASED point of view. ie factually. That is what reporters do.
        Unfortunately you have not done so.

        The result is you have heathcliff2013 saying: “the lady is a virgin and she is living with her husband in his house? who paid these gospel writers to write such dumb stories?” You have utterly confused the man.

        If you want to write…then please do more research and don’t try to fit information with no credibility just to aid YOUR thesis and reasoning and spend loads of time justifying why it might be true.
        Okay?

  7. When there is an older man in the Bible that is going to become a father, the Bible usually reveals that fact.

    Abraham is one example. Genesis 17:15-17 says, “And God said unto Abraham, As for Sarai thy wife, thou shalt not call her name Sarai, but Sarah shall her name be. And I will bless her, and give thee a son also of her: yea, I will bless her, and she shall be a mother of nations; kings of people shall be of her. Then Abraham fell upon his face, and laughed, and said in his heart, Shall a child be born unto him that is an hundred years old? and shall Sarah, that is ninety years old, bear?”

    Boaz is another example. Ruth 3:7-11 says, “And when Boaz had eaten and drunk, and his heart was merry, he went to lie down at the end of the heap of corn: and she came softly, and uncovered his feet, and laid her down. And it came to pass at midnight, that the man was afraid, and turned himself: and, behold, a woman lay at his feet. And he said, Who art thou? And she answered, I am Ruth thine handmaid: spread therefore thy skirt over thine handmaid; for thou art a near kinsman. And he said, Blessed be thou of the LORD, my daughter: for thou hast shewed more kindness in the latter end than at the beginning, inasmuch as thou followedst not young men, whether poor or rich. And now, my daughter, fear not; I will do to thee all that thou requirest: for all the city of my people doth know that thou art a virtuous woman.”

    Zacharias is another example. Luke 1:5-7 says, “There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth. And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless. And they had no child, because that Elisabeth was barren, and they both were now well stricken in years.” Luke 1:13 says, “But the angel said unto him, Fear not, Zacharias: for thy prayer is heard; and thy wife Elisabeth shall bear thee a son, and thou shalt call his name John.”

    When the angel Gabriel is talking to Mary about the birth of the Lord Jesus, he mentions the age factor of Elizabeth – but nothing about that in relation to her and Joseph. Luke 1:30-36 says, “And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God. And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end. Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man? And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God. And, behold, thy cousin Elisabeth, she hath also conceived a son in her old age: and this is the sixth month with her, who was called barren.”

    There is no mention at all in the Bible about there being a big difference in the ages of Joseph and Mary. Matthew 1:18-25 says, “Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost. Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not willing to make her a publick example, was minded to put her away privily. But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost. And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins. Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us. Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife: And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS.”

    Liberal thinkers try to say that young girls were married off at extremely young ages in Bible times (like the age you were told, 14), but we do not see that at all as the general rule in Bible times. God Himself set the age of being accountable for life decisions at 20 years old. Numbers 14:28-30 says, “Say unto them, As truly as I live, saith the LORD, as ye have spoken in mine ears, so will I do to you: Your carcases shall fall in this wilderness; and all that were numbered of you, according to your whole number, from twenty years old and upward, which have murmured against me, Doubtless ye shall not come into the land, concerning which I sware to make you dwell therein, save Caleb the son of Jephunneh, and Joshua the son of Nun.” Maybe that is why Jacob was willing to work 7 years for Rachel’s hand in marriage, because she had not quite reached 20 years old, yet. We do not know, because it does not say. Genesis 29:18 says, “And Jacob loved Rachel; and said, I will serve thee seven years for Rachel thy younger daughter.”

    The most important decision of life is salvation and then serving the Lord. The next most important decision would be marriage. It is hard to imagine that God would condone the marrying of girls under the age of 20, when He considers that the age when He holds people accountable for their life decisions. After watching young people grow up and leave home, I would never encourage young people to marry before the age of 20 years old. I have seen some young people greatly change after they graduate from school. It is good to wait a few years and see what direction they are really going to choose in life.

    Based upon the fact that God holds young adults accountable from 20 years old and up, God would have never put such an important decision before Mary, as to whether she would be willing to bear the Messiah, unless she was at least 20 years old. God does not violate His own principles. Luke 1:34-38 says, “Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man? And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God. And, behold, thy cousin Elisabeth, she hath also conceived a son in her old age: and this is the sixth month with her, who was called barren. For with God nothing shall be impossible. And Mary said, Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word. And the angel departed from her.”

  8. This article presents some historic facts….which to be honest is not hidden from the world but it grossly misses the the truth of the bible….child marriage was a usual part of the custom in Jewish tradition….Mary was 12 or 13 the fact that she gave birth joyfully and accepted the calling of God is just so beautiful to me……do we condemn Muslim brethren for having more than one wife no why because its a part of the custom…..I don’t see the point of this article making such an erroneous statement …..without having understood the culture and mindset of people during biblical times…..just like any other culture we cannot condemn a particular culture just because your point of view is different…..who defines you are right in the first place only you and your judgement of right or wrong…tree of knowledge of Good and Evil….Jesus never came to change culture and put so called things considered right and wrong by you ……He came so that man could open His heart to have ,know and experience a God for real….and allow God through Jesus to touch people with love and healing….this article Misses the whole point of why Jesus came….He came so that YOU can know and experience God for Real at a heart level……every other idea is just rules and regulations Religion …..the fact that Mary was not a virgin is very evident from the bible ……there is nothing for a Christ follower to hide cause Mary was just a normal human being with normal human sexual needs like you and she died a normal death……it’s only the Catholic Church who follows religious Christianity that has made that up that lie but real followers of Christ know this truth……what the big deal you are trying to convey information that mislead people……..ones heart knows whether what they follow is the real deal or Not…..and that can happen when one pulls back the veil and gets honest with oneself….and if one finds themselves lacking Truth. And empty inside looking for knowledge of right and wrong to satisfy what they believe they have missed God altogether ….just rememember something very simple knowledge is not Truth…experiencial Knowing of God is Truth…..and Jesus has opened that way for you brother…..

  9. Why judge pedophilia on mankind of the past since it is norm for them to marry at young age. Only in this modern era, people feel weird with young marriages.

    ~~side note~~
    Original followers of Jesus (pbuh), the Nasorean Jews never believed in Greek Testaments used by Christian-Romans. After all the Greek Testamenst are filled with fables written after the ascend of Jesus to heaven.

    Kartir, the Zoroastrian high priest and advisor to Hormizd I in the late 3rd century c.e., campaigned against other religions among which he clearly distinguished Christians from Nasoreans.

    Kabah of Zartusht”And in kingdom after kingdom and place after place throughout the whole empire the services of Ahura Mazda and the Yazads became preeminent, and great dignity came to the Mazdayasnian religion and the magi in the empire, and the Yazads and water and fire and small cattle in the empire attained great satisfaction, while Ahriman and the devs were punished and rebuked, and the teachings of Ahriman and the devs departed from the empire and were abandoned. And Yahud (Jews), Shaman (Buddhists), Brahman (Hindus), Nasara (Nasoreans), Kristiyan (Christians), Maktak (Baptisers), and Zandiks (Manichaeans) in the empire were smitten, and destruction of idols and scattering of the stores of the devs and god-seats and nests was abandoned.

  10. love ur website spreading the truth i was googling and found ur site after tellin gsome people about how mary was 12, thanks!!!

    • We don’t know how old she was.

      • Yes we do know how old Mary was when married off. I provided many historical evidences. Read it again.

      • I came across this site when I saw a video on youtube stating the age of Mary and Joseph; unlike Islam wherein Hadits and historical evidences which may/may-not be authentic can be used to string together a narrative in Christianity we try as much as possible to limit things such as this to the contents of the Torah (Old testamenet) and Bible (New testament).

        So my “Discover The Truth”, you need to point me to passages in these two books where it states categorically the age of Joseph; and please don’t try to tell me these books have been corrupted. In any case, when age is important, the bible tends to highlight it as was the case with Abraham.

  11. Salam, berak’Allah feekum!!.. Am really touched & moved by this important article. We (Muslims) are at the moment in a critical conditions of hatred, attacks and of course negative propaganda by the infidels, atheist & the Christians. The issue of prophet Muhd’s marriage to Aisha, have been the talk of the day and a point of putting accusations and blames to the holy prophet Muhd (saw), Islam & the Muslims. I enjoin Muslims brethren to go into research on other books eg the Bible etc, so as to uncover the hidden atrocities there in.

    • Islam gets hatred??? If you want to see hatred go to some of these Islamic states in the middle east. You know the ones where the Bible is banned, pray to Jesus is banned, 2000 Christians a year are killed for believing in Jesus. Where the Christian population has decreased from 20% of the Middle East to 5% in a few decades because of Muslim persecution. Your religion has never experienced persecution, it has always been the persecutor.

      • Thats how it was right here when christian slave owners enslaved my people from Africa and forced them to convert and praying to Allah was banned. Shut your dusty mouth you slimy devil stop deceiving those that are gullible!

      • Jesus taught that once he left Christians would pray directly to the Father, not to him.

      • Hey Mr Christian Why Not Explain The Love Spread By Your Religion.Let’s Talk About What The Spaniards Did In America What About Inquisition Witch Hunts Ethnic Cleansing By Serbs

  12. Here bro, nice article and all but I am certain if knowing how old Joseph was before Jesus was born was very important to being saved, the Bible will state it. At the end of the day, knowing his age changes nothing but knowing Jesus and believing He died to take away the sins of the world is all that matters. So I appreciate you took your time to research all these, I commend you for that but it does Change the Fact that Jesus is Lord.

    • Hi Emmanuel.

      Thank you for your comment. Really appreciate that you took your time out to comment. Whatever differences our beliefs, we are brothers in humanity.

      God bless

      – Admin

  13. I’ve been a Christian for almost 40 years…then I started doing research on love and marriage relationships in the Bible. Just to find that love was never part of marriages. I’ve seen a God that is a sexism and allowed 8 tipes of marriages, he also allowed slavery and selling your children as slaves, I saw a God that needed men to brutally kill other people, (while He could have whiped them out with one word, if He is what we say He is). Also, I found a lot of verses where God spoke in the first person, but could not find one where God told his people (in his own voice) that he loves them. I believe in a God of love, and the one in the Bible does not fit that criteria.

    • Then, Malie, create a god in your own mind that suits yourself.

    • Well, that’s certainly stripping context out of sight and superimposing a modern context atop it. As for 40 years, your ‘faith’ must not have been built on much to go so long shuffling mindlessly, only to topple at the first half-assed speculation. Did this ‘aha’ moment come after watching an Oprah show? Now that youre feathers are a little ruffled, 40 years later, keep on digging and ask your own critical questions every inch of the way alongside proper context and existential consideration — not just some alternative view that you never considered and seem to have bought wholesale at the discovery of your illusory faith.

      • *your feathers

      • Also, it’s no help to your understanding in attempting to humanize God, as far as how you’ve tried to decide what God is and what God isn’t. Seems you may want to return to studying full-length scripture rather than excerpts and notions. I’m being blunt, but I don’t actually mean to mock you. Times flies for any of us if we don’t maintain an accessibility before God as we reach to know Him, and we turn around to see years of betrayal at our disowning of personal responsibility and our false sense of security rather than keeping proportionate step within our own capacity/conscience. Jesus Christ warns about this.

  14. No matter what is or not found in some Christian writings, it does not become a Muslim to write such things about Mary (Bibi Maryam (may peace be upon her)) or John (Hazrat Yahya (may peace be upon him)). What is the point of the disclaimer at the bottom of your article that you cannot believe such things about them when you yourself have been bold enough to cite such writings? How does it help anyone discover the beauty of Islam? The best that you can hope to achieve is make non-believers out of Christian believers.
    Quran 66:12 cites Mary as an exemplary believer: ‘And Mary, daughter of ‘Imran, whose body was chaste, therefor We breathed therein something of Our Spirit. And she put faith in the words of her Lord and His scriptures, and was of the obedient.’
    Quran 3:39 speaks of John thus: ‘And the angels called to him as he stood praying in the sanctuary: Allah giveth thee glad tidings of (a son whose name is) John, (who cometh) to confirm a word from Allah lordly, chaste, a prophet of the righteous.’
    Quran 3:44 tells us: ‘This is of the tidings of things hidden. We reveal it unto thee (Muhammad). Thou wast not present with them when they threw their pens (to know) which of them should be the guardian of Mary, nor wast thou present with them when they quarrelled (thereupon).’
    [Translator: Picthall]
    As the Quran informs us that John was chaste, thus we should not indulge in what is contained in any apocryphal Christian writings. Firther, we revere these people as the chosen ones of God – when we cannot bear to have such things spoken of about our parents, how can we cite such things about them – for any reason?? I think a Muslim needs to be more careful about his/her duty and accountability.

    • Salaamu Alaikum dear sister,

      This article was written in order to show what the Bible (or other Christian books) say of Mary (as). We are ONLY highlighting what their beliefs are. In no instance has the author written this to degrade Mary, that is not the case.

      You should be taking your case against Christians who have such beliefs. Not the author who shows what their books say.

      • Wa-alaikum-us-salam.
        a) Please see how various translators have interpreted Quran 6:108 [http://islamawakened.com/quran/6/108/ , Literal
        (Word by Word)]: And (do) not insult those whom they invoke other than Allah, lest they insult Allah (in) enmity without knowledge. Thus We have made fair-seeming to every community their deed. Then to their Lord (is) their return, then He will inform them about what they used to do.
        b) According to Quran 3:37-39, John was granted to Zakaria after Mary was born:
        So her Lord accepted her with good acceptance and caused her to grow in a good manner and put her in the care of Zechariah. Every time Zechariah entered upon her in the prayer chamber, he found with her provision. He said, “O Mary, from where is this [coming] to you?” She said, “It is from Allah . Indeed, Allah provides for whom He wills without account.” At that, Zechariah called upon his Lord, saying, “My Lord, grant me from Yourself a good offspring. Indeed, You are the Hearer of supplication.” So the angels called him while he was standing in prayer in the chamber, “Indeed, Allah gives you good tidings of John, confirming a word from Allah and [who will be] honorable, abstaining [from women], and a prophet from among the righteous.”
        [Translator: Sahih International]
        c) This website is titled ‘Discover the Truth’ – it would be good to focus upon and promote the truth instead of discovering the lies!

      • The problem is that they are not our beliefs. Apocrypha are just that. Not accepted. Just as the weakest Hadeeth should be given zero credibility. We believe what is said by those closest to Mary, the eye witnesses of Jesus and His Mother like John The apostle who cared for Mary after the death of Jesus and wrote the Gospel of John.
        Thankyou for your support in rejecting promoting spurious stories that have no basis Samiya.

  15. Could it be possible that James was the father of Jesus because at 90 years of age Joseph would not be able to father a child.James must have been many years older then Mary so if true he must like young girls as well.If God as we are told was the father of Jesus and God had a wife Asherah was he not breaking his own commandments .No wonder it was left out or hidden in the Bible.

    • The Jesus Christians believe is according to the Bible not according to Quran which came 500 years after Gospel or other historic lies. As per Bible there is no evidence of Joseph or Mary’s age so this article is simply false.

    • Why speculate on what you do not know, and create fabricated stories that insult Jesus, Mary and their family.
      There is nothing odd, but there is the miraculous.
      How God chose to create Jesus using Mary’s Ovum we don’t know. I intend to ask him one day.
      For now I will stick with what truth we have and not express fabricated tales as if true…as this author has done.

    • Then, Malie, create a god in your own mind that suits yourself.

    • Why do you presume that a 90 year old man could not beget a child? Perhaps you are confusing this with menopause, which happens to women from about 40 to around 50, rendering them infertile. Men do not have menopause or anything comparable.
      Sperm concentration gradually decreases and a higher portion of sperm are defective as a man ages. Erections tend to become less rigid, and take longer to achieve. Ejaculation becomes less forceful, eventually down to a dribble. But with all this, fertility doesn’t drop to zero.
      The main problem men have with advancing age is due to the “use it or lose it” principle.

  16. I hate to be involved in religious debate cause no one would win. But I read all those comments on here and I keep thinking that if bible mention the age of Abraham and others, why not mention age of Joseph and Virgin Mary. Well, my answer was simple, bible was not wrote by Jesus himself but 40men. They would only wrote what they want people to know.

    People of the world should know that religion is just a way of being closer to your creator.

    • Mutiu,
      Other than the miraculous impregnation aspect this is a historical discussion, not religious or faith.

      [I realize that the comment to which I am replying is over a year old.]

  17. Not worth the read. Nothing in the Bible supports such interpretation.

  18. very funny.
    how hard u tried to justify certain acts of Islam by trying to punch holes in Christianity to seem right wat u do and deem acceptable.
    one thing u will never understand which you never will cos u will never accept for all reasons is the fact that Christ Jesus is the son of God and God on earth whose birth was by an act of miracle and out of the normal. I believe in God Almighty and His awesome power to do beyond the ordinary n wat human mind can conceive.
    *facts
    +Jesus was born of a virgin
    +He lived a holy life
    +He died and resurrected and ascended into heaven
    which of dis do u disagree with?
    God is Holy and has all wisdom and knows all things and thus won’t do mistakes dat u with a mortal mind can question and find fault with.
    I pray the Lord opens ur mind and for u to see the light, the truth and life.

  19. very funny.
    how hard u tried to justify certain acts of Islam by trying to punch holes in Christianity to seem right wat u do and deem acceptable.
    one thing u will never understand which you never will cos u will never accept for all reasons is the fact that Christ Jesus is the son of God and God on earth whose birth was by an act of miracle and out of the normal. I believe in God Almighty and His awesome power to do beyond the ordinary n wat human mind can conceive.
    *facts
    +Jesus was born of a virgin
    +He lived a holy life
    +He died and resurrected and ascended into heaven
    which of dis do u disagree with?
    God is Holy and has all wisdom and knows all things and thus won’t do mistakes dat u with a mortal mind can question and find fault with.
    I pray the Lord opens ur mind and for u to see the light, the truth and life

  20. The Roman Church rejected the Apocrypha as canonical until Trent. Jerome (Vulgate) refused to translate them but yielded to pressure from supporters of the Apocrypha and did a quick-and-dirty job.
    Until Trent the apocryphal books were separate. Since then, they have been interjected into the canon.

  21. Mary did not call herself a wife or even a concubine of the LORD but only a mere “handmaid,” a serving-wench (slave-girl) commonly used sexually.

  22. Applying today’s moral idiosyncrasies to other cultures centuries or thousands of years ago is a logical fallacy, the historical fallacy.
    We haven’t a leg to stand on. Fornication and adultery are popular sports. Sexual deviancy and perversion have been legalized.

  23. LOL. After a convincing argument that Joseph was 80-90 years old when he married Mary, I almost fell off my PC chair laughing on your claim that 90-year old Joseph and Mary engaged in marital sex after the birth of Christ. I would believe that if something like v i a g r a had existed during his time.

  24. Nice article. I appreciate the research. I wanted to help explain some things you might not have come across in your research or were confused by. Learned Christians agree that the Greek word Apocrypha means exactly what you’ve said. The reason why some Christian jump to saying it means it’s not canonical is because the writings are dated by scholars, both Christian and non-Christian, as having been written too far away from the actual events to have been written by any eyewitnesses or people that could have interviewed any eyewitnesses. Everyone close enough to the time of the events had already passed away. Also, secret writings and beliefs were not traditions of the early Messianic Jewish/Christian Church, but it was a part of false christian cults such as gnosticis. There will always be false christian groups that sprout off from New Testament Christianity that will try to espouse their particular beliefs onto the Bible or instead of it. The Mormons, for example, have the book of Mormon, written by their cult founder Joseph Smith who claimed to be a prophet. Scholars and archeologists have been able to prove his work as fraud. As far as the early church fathers go, all of the church fathers listed lived too far from the actual events to know for certain. In other words, it becomes altogether safer to be weary of and reject sudden new information that turns up hundreds of years after the fact. It would have to be proven that Christians of sound doctrine that lived far closer to the events believed such things. If so, it would also prove the belief existed prior to the date scholars believed the Apocryphal work was fabricated.

  25. Continuing from my last comment, I forgot to mention thst, yes, the author of Hebrews is unknown, but scholars date it as having been written before 90-100 AD, which is when both Christian and non-Christian scholars date the completion of 100% of the New Testament writings. Also, the early church in the 2nd century used it and considered it Scripture. Of course, some churches a century or two later were also known for accidentally using Apocryphal literature or other forgeries before discovering the document as fraudulent. Moving on… Only the Catholics believe, to my knowledge, that Mary was a perpetual virgin. Most other Christians recognize the parts of the Bible that state that she had intercourse with Joseph and that they must have had children together as the New Testament states Jesus had siblings. Because the Apocryphal works were written hundreds of years after the time Jesus lived, most Christians dismiss any claims to the children being from a previous marriage. It’s also possible that these claims were made to defend the Catholic belief that Mary was a virgin. Only Mormons believe that Mary physically had intercourse with God. My research and conversations with an ex-Mormon missionary tell me that Mormons supposedly believe that Adam was supposedly God and Eve was his first wife. They believe that after God/Adam had children with Eve, that he left back for Heaven. Mormons believe that Adam/God returned to Wed and procreate with Mary. As stated in my last comment, scholars and archeologists today have been able to prove that Joseph Smith’s work, the Book of Mormon which he authored in America in the 1800’s, is fraudulent. All other Christians do not believe that Adam is God nor that God the Father has a phys body, and are also appalled at the belief that Mary and God had physical intercourse. As for whether or not the Bible claims physical intercourse, the answer is no. The John 3:16 you quote from appears to be from the King James Version, written in Old Elizabethean English, and last updated in 1749. Today scholars have more ancient, more reliable manuscripts to work with and have also been able to correct the translational errors found in the KJV. John 3:16’s use of the word “begotten” is one of them. The Greek word for “only begotten” is monogennao (mono=only, gennao=begotten). But the Greek word that this is found here in John 3:16 is monogenes, meaning “only kind” (genes=kind). The KJV scholars in 1611, as well as in 1749 when they updated the translation, did not yet know this and only guessed at it. Hebrews 11:17 in the KJV also incorrectly translates monogenes as “only begotten”, but I think you would agree that this translation is incorrect. The KJV states that Isaac was the “only begotten” son of Abraham, but we know this is not true as he also beget Ishmael. In modern translations, both verses now translate correctly to “one and only unique son” as Isaac was the son of promise and Jesus is the Messiah of Israel. They are both obe of a kind. As for the “come upon” and “overshadow” points you brought up, these are not sexual terms and at this point you’re merely grasping at straws, unfortunately. Mary’s question and the answer the angel gives completely throws sexual relations out of the window. Mary asks how she can become pregnant without sexual intercourse as she knows that God does not have a physical body and does not have intercourse, and the angel tells her that the power of God’s Holy Spirit will come and cast a shadow upon her. Both in the Jewish Scriptures and later sections of the Christian Scriptures show other times in which the Holy Spirit came upon people, indwelling them or empowering them to do God’s work. King David asked God not to take His Holy Spirit away as consequence for his sins, the Holy Spirit came upon Jesus when He was baptized in the Jordan in the Gospels, and the Holy Spirit came upon and indwelt the early Jewish church in the book of Acts at Pentecost, etc. Absolutely none of these accounts were sexual in nature nor is intercourse implied by the angel to Mary and Christians of sound doctrine ever since the 1st century have been quick to reject such teachings as blasphemous. Unfortunately, there were false christian groups at the time the Prophet Mohammed was alive that also taught this blasphemy and he was correct to condemn the belief as heretical. Unfortunately, this belief has never represented or been true of New Testament Christianity. So, due to these reasons, Christians have never applied the interpretation of sexual intercourse onto the Scriptural account as you have above. Unfortunately, as I have said, false christians have here and there through the centuries.

  26. Most religions are talking about same shit,slavery rape pedophilia ..same thing with the BiBle im raised christian and i think itf full of crap -manmade fairytale with lots of perversion ilegal activities ,sodomy slavery and torture –this is your GOD OF MERCY AND LIGHT !
    PURE SATANic garbage

  27. There are 14 books in the Apocrypha (King James). I have read them all. Which book are you referring to gron the Apocrypha?

  28. The author of the article provides HISTORICAL evidence that Joseph the Carpenter married Mary mother of Jesus when he was 90 and the was 12. He quoted Eusebius of Caesarea (260 CE), who was an early historian and Bishop, confirming the historicity of this. Many other early church fathers believed it. Therefore, it doesn’t matter whether it was narrated in the Apocrypha, early church historians confirmed it to be historical.

    By citing this historical fact, the writer of the article nowhere says Jesus was of Joseph. What he points out is that Mary mother of Jesus married Joseph when she was 12 and Joseph was 90 after the birth of Jesus.

    And the point is that, according to today’s standard, the marriage between Joseph at 90 and Mary at 12 was pedophilia – thus Joseph was a pedo! This also means that if Christians are ever consistent, they must condemn Joseph the carpenter is a pedo for marrying a girl at 12 which is an underage according to today’s standard! So, what this article all means is ‘demand of consistency’ from Christians. But where is such a consistent Christians?! Nowhere!!

  29. Hey Christians! You claimed that Mary was not a virgin? Liar! Matthew 1:25 says that Joseph did not have sexual relationship whit her until Jesus was born.
    Even Christian scholars contradict your stupid claim.

    Also, “apocrypha” originally means secret or hidden, not fake. I guess the Roman Catholic leaders tried to change the definition of apocrypha so that western Christians can avoid this embarrassment. LOL!

  30. First off, what is your supposition that a Christian knows the reason God did or did not do any of this? God would have to reveal why, and He has not. No speculation -however logical it may seem- could actually explain it.

    You write that “neither I nor any Muslim can ever think of anything close to it”. But you give no such disclaimer on your articles about the young age of Rebecca to Isaac (3yrs old or 10yrs in your two articles). Yet, surely, as a Muslim, the relationship of Rebecca and Isaac must have merit to you.

    The Qur’an teachings that a female must “reach the age to wed” (Yusuf Ali 004:006) does not have a number attached. The onset of menstruation is known to occur between 9-16 years of age (see the book Female Fertility and the Body-Fat Connection) so certainly 12yr old Mary could have reached “an age to wed”. Furthermore, the Qur’an speaks of marrying “believing girls” (Yusuf Ali 004:025).

    Furthermore, my understanding is that Islam’s Holy Books include the Qur’an, the Tawrat (Torah), Zabur (Psalms), Injii (matching some New Testament). So, why this finger pointing at the “deceivers” and claim that “no Muslim can be a Muslim and believe such”. Believe what, exactly? Nowhere in anything you said is there an argument that Mary becomes impure or unholy. Your treatment of Mary is thus:
    – she is born, and when three takes up residence in the temple.
    – there she remains until 12 or 14.
    – at that time the Jewish men of the temple decide to protect Mary’s chastity from evil men by getting her married.
    – following some acceptable form of marriage contract she becomes espoused (engaged) to Joseph. A man much older than her (ranging from the tradition of 40+ years to 80-90)
    – following some unknown period of time (during which remains a virgin) an angel comes to her. She agrees to become Christ’s mother.
    – following some unknown period of time (during which remains a virgin) she then has an experience, of some sort, with Holy Spirit and/or God the Father.
    – roughly nine months later she gives birth to Christ in Bethlehem
    – she lives with Joseph as wife

    Where in there is anything that could possibly make Mary impure? And, if your argument is that God is impure or unholy (for what was done to Mary) then that is the basis for dismantling any religion tracing to “the God of Abraham”.

    How do Muslims explain the birth of Christ?

  31. “Matthew 1:25” The words specify according to semitic language only one point until which a certain statement applies, but nothing about time afterwards.

    K. Beyer: Semitische Syntax im NT I Satzlehre Teil 1 (SUNT 1) Göttingen 1968.

  32. If Mary was betrothed to Joseph when she was twelve, and the angle came to Joseph in a dream to tell him Mary would have the Lords child and he should marry her, then she was most likely 11 or 12 when the Lord descended upon her. Luke 1:26-38 tells us she was distressed and then coerced into being impregnated. I find this highly disgusting that the Lord would coerce a girl of 11 or 12 to let him impregnate her.

    My only hope is that it was all a fabrication since Luke did not join religion till well over 36years latter so did not witness any of what is claimed, and he tells us in Luke 1:1-6 he collected what people generally believed the eye witnesses were claiming to have witnessed, not actual eye witness accounts of anything.

    So maybe Mary did get it off with the Roman Soldier Tiberus Penter after all as the truth usually persists longer than lies.

  33. Words, words, words–none of which can be verified and which have caused untold pain and suffering as Christians imposed their religion on others through force and conquest and then fought among themselves over what the words mean.

  34. Wait! I already posted that Joe married Mary two years later. Sorry didn’t mean to span.

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