One of the living miracle of the Qur’an: its oral preservation

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Christians often ask Muslims, if they have any evidence to offer that the Qur’an is from God. I think it is a valid question from someone who is not yet a believer in Islam.

While the answer can be very subjective, what I think the most notable evidence  is the obvious innate ability of the Qur’an recitation to be memorised by heart. Some muslim even are able to recite the whole Qur’an recitation from memory.

This is the clear evidence what makes it from God and this phenomenon  can be witnessed all over the world  to this very day.

God keeps his promise:

وَلَقَدْ يَسَّرْنَا الْقُرْآنَ لِلذِّكْرِ فَهَلْ مِن مُّدَّكِرٍ

“And We have certainly made the Qur’an easy for remembrance, so is there any who will remember?” [Q 54:17]

This is one of the miraculous nature of the Qur’an which make it the ONLY religious holy book in the world which can be memorised by millions of people word for word from the beginning after it was revealed making sure its preservation. This unique ability of the Qur’an to be memorised is unlike anything like the human brain ability. This phenomenon of people who can memorised the whole Qur’an or حفاظ القرآن Hufaadhul Qur’an  into memory exist regardless of ages, social status, cultural background, intelligence etc. It is a living miracle

This makes it impossible for the Qur’an to become corrupted  because it was memorised by muslims right after it was revealed to the prophet Muhammad dictated by himself in original language of Arabic verbatim.

It is in opposite reality when it comes to the book of  known as the new testament (NT), while Jesus and his contemporaries would have been Aramaic speakers, christians do not have in their possession the original Aramaic utterance of Jesus. Christians rely on  greek texts as their basis for understanding Jesus teachings. What we have only is scattered  Aramaic expressions here in there in the NT. It is believed that this  aramaic corpus of Jesus original gospel of Jesus had been lost.

Listen to Imam Karim Abu Zaid , a Qur’an memoriser himself, when he explains how the Quran is preserved:

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62 Responses »

    • We have the same exact arabic utterance as the revelation given to the prophet. It was memorised from the beginning.

      • you do not have the original copy of the Quran.

      • With the name of Allah.

         

        The Qur’an is memorised from the beginning we have the original recitation pure and original.

        Regarding the written parchment we even have the manuscript dated back in the time of the prophet.

        http://edition.cnn.com/videos/world/2015/07/22/oldest-quran-manuscript-found-orig.cnn/video/playlists/ancient-discoveries/

         

      • Eric,
        You have only two pieces of manuscript from only two chapters,18,and 20, and those are not complete. They were added to “other manuscripts”. If the original was a miracle by Muhammad and Allah is real and sovereign in the context Islam claimed he is, you would still have them today, wouldn’t you?
        But God is sovereign. And He did preserve His Holy Word, the Bible.
        He has confirmed this with the Dead Sea Scrolls and the Codex Sinai-ticius. You and I can see these today in high definition onlne. They prove Muhammad was neither a prophet or sent.

      • With the name of Allah.

        The Qur’an is primarily oral and we believe that our scholastic tradition has preserved the Qur’an in its entirety.  This is because in Islam we have kept the primary language of the Qur’an alive as well (fusha Arabic), and we’ve kept two separate traditions alive for over 1400 years: Hifz al Qur’an (memorization of the Qur’an) and ‘Ilm al Rasm al Mushaf (the science of the writing of the Qur’an). In essence, Muslims have kept reciting the Qur’an, memorizing it in its entirety, specializing in learning its language, specialized in learning its recital for over 1400 years, to this very day.

        Please check this HBO Documentary, A film goes inside the oldest tradition of  memorising  the Qur’an.

        _____________________

        So We dont rely on manuscript evidence.

        The same cannot be said for the OT and NT.

        Christian lost the the authentic “Jesus oral tradition”.  Christians do not memorise their scriptures and this cast doubts to the preservation.

        Still Qur’anic manuscripts evidences are stronger.  You don’t have complete manuscripts which is dated back to the time of Jesus or Moses. Sinaiticus and dead sea scrolls are much later centuries after the time of Moses and Jesus.

        The Qur’an complete manuscripts the Sanaa  belonged to the period of just within 50 years after the time of Prophet Muhammad. While the oldest surviving gospel manuscript the P52  all that is left is this little piece, the size of a credit card was dated to second half of century.

         

      • Islam is manmade. There is nothing new in its plan for redemption for mankind. You good deeds must outweigh your bad deeds in Islam. And you cannot call God Father as a believer, or know God according to he Quran. It denies Christ’s deity as God in the flesh come down to personally save us. Nothing positive and new in the Quran.

      • God’s mercy is available to us who have faith and hope in Him especially when making prayer in sincerity. Anyone can turn to Allah for forgiveness sincerely hoping their sins were forgiven by Allah and among those who were protected from the hellfire.

        Why the need of god who condemn humanity to “original sin” which then could only be forgiven by him demanding that he die?? How can a god can die in the first place?

        It is totally illogical to me how can god self controlled his suicide which is clearly faking his own death by exiting his own punishment for the purpose of shedding a “divine” blood in order to forgive people from their sins?

        God can just forgive those individual who sincerely repent from a guilty heart.

        This is the essence of genuine teaching of the God in the Torah that that no one can die for the sins of another.

        Leviticus 18:21; you shall not give any of your offspring to pass through for Molech. And you shall not profane the Name of your God. I am the Lord.

        Leviticus 24; if a man strikes down any human being he shall be put to death.. . . one who strikes a person shall be put to death. . . One law shall be exacted for you, convert and resident alike, for I am the Lord, your God.

        Numbers 35:33; “you shall not corrupt the land in which you live, for the blood corrupts the land, and the blood which is shed in the land cannot be atoned for except through the blood of the one who shed it.”

        Deuteronomy 24:16; Fathers shall not be put to death because of sons, nor shall sons be put to death because of fathers; each man shall be put to death for his own transgression.

        II Kings 14:6; it is written in the book of the Torah of Moses, which the Lord commanded saying: “Fathers shall not be put to death for sons, nor shall sons be put to death for fathers, but each man shall be put to death for his own sin.

        See also Deuteronomy 18:10; Jeremiah 7:31, 19: 5; Ezekiel 23:37 and 39.

        The idea that Jesus was a sacrifice, goes against actual teaching of earlier prophets.

      • God inhabited a body, born into humanity through a Virgin.
        The body dies. The soul does not die. It goes to eternal Heaven or eternal punishment in hell, also known as the second death. God as Christ rose bodily from the tomb to show He can give life to who He will, and that He defeated eternal death.

      • We are talking about the attributes of God.
        Genuine Semitic revelation define God as

        Nothing like Him. (Q 42:11) ..
        I am G0d and there is no other  (Isaiah 46:9)..
        nobody have never heard his voice nor seen his form (John 5:37)

         
        If G0d can incarnate to become a human  or  monkey,  or cow, that is Hinduism 101.

      • All sins, great and small, disqualify us as Holy and perfect. God as Jesus Christ lived a sinless perfect human life and came to die for our sins, and offer life to all who believe in Him.

      • The idea that God somehow has the need to “pay” the sin (which by definition : sin is the act of violating God’s will so.. God only has the authority to “erase” the sin) …by murdering Himself is bizarre and unnecessary.

        Islam offers a direct relationship with God almighty.

      • We do memorize scriptures. But we also have ancient copies of the old and new testaments. Memorizing scripture is in no way verifiable as memory can be flawed.
        But consider this please.

        “Philip said to Him, “Lord, show us the Father, and it is sufficient for us.”

        “Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?” (John 14:8,9, Bible, NKJV)
        God came down to save us as Jesus. The scripture clearly shows God personally came. “A child is born, a Son is given.” The child was born, but the Son was given because the Son already existed.
        I have 40 plus references to the incarnation of Christ as God in the flesh, from the Bible.

      • No, I have not met in my entire life 45+ any christian who memorized OT and NT in its original language some considerable verses let alone entirely. While in the Qur’an can be memorized by little kid entirely in every corner of the world. It is a miraculous signs from God.

        How can God incarnate into man? this sounds like Hinduism to me

      • In Islam, No comparability of God is strictly monotheistic context. We do not allow God to do absurd things such as:

        Can God creates rock so heavy that God can not lift it?!?..

        Our theology based in the Qur’an and hadiths only allows to describe God in such Godly manner.

      • Eric,
        Thank you for permitting our discussion then.

      • CCT, I am glad we can discuss this. I apologise also that my time is limited so my response could be delayed. I ask you no need to throw a lot of references from pauline teaching, I can also give ton of references to prove that Jesus has God and he worshiped him from the Bible. Please make your point concise and articulate it.

        Now I am asking you, do you consider Jesus a 100% human or not? why do you worship Jesus not God? I warn you worshiping a human being is considered egregious sin throughout the bible.

      • Eric,
        I also am glad we can have a civil exchange as devout and learned men.
        Jesus said,“God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.” (John 4:24, The Bible) As God is omnipresent, and knows the thoughts and prayers of everyone at once, He is fully able to occupy the throne in heaven and a body on Earth at the same time. He does the miraculous and the miraculous doesn’t make sense that’s why it’s called miraculous. What Muslims typically call ridiculous we call miraculous.
        Is anything too hard for God?

      • Amen.

        We believe God is Spirit, that God is omnipresent.

        Also God is
        Nothing like Him. (Q 42:11) ..
        I am God and there is no other (Isa 46:9)..
        nobody have never heard his voice nor seen his form (Jhn 5:37)

        But Jesus is not spirit and not omnipresent, during his time people can “see” and “hear” Jesus like any other prophets, now He is taken up to heaven like prophet Muhammad, therefore Jesus is not everywhere, thus he is not God.

      • It means you worship a being who was in part a fully human being.

        Worshiping a human being is of course egregious sin.

      • Not part. Fully human. Fully God. The kind of math only God can do.

      • It still holds , it only means you worship a being who was a fully human being. Idolatry, A big sin.

      • 6″For unto us a Child is born,
        Unto us a Son is given;
        And the government will be upon His shoulder.
        And His name will be called
        Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God,
        Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.” ( Isaiah 9:6,The Bible )
        The child was born. The Son was given because the Son pre-existing makes it so. “He will be called “Mighty God”.
        God did not make another God when Christ entered the would as a human. God inhabited a human body. Not a problem for God to do that. He showed us what humility is by coming down to us as one of us. That totally is opposite of our nature, and Islamic thought and doctrinal essences. That is why I am offering it to you.
        Think about it Eric, if you were going to make up a religion, which is more likely, the Bible story or Quran? We both know the answer to that.

      • CCT, you are wrong.

        You dont seem to posses familiarity with Biblical hebrew, here is the hebrew text of Isaiah 9:6

         

        כִּי־יֶ֣לֶד יֻלַּד־לָ֗נוּ בֵּ֚ן נִתַּן־לָ֔נוּ וַתְּהִ֥י הַמִּשְׂרָ֖העַל־שִׁכְמ֑וֹ

        וַיִּקְרָ֨א שְׁמ֜וֹ

        פֶּ֠לֶא יוֹעֵץ֙ אֵ֣ל גִּבּ֔וֹר אֲבִי־עַ֖ד שַׂר־שָׁלֽוֹם

         

         

        Let’s look at each word:

        כִּי – “For or because”

         

        יֶלֶד – “a child”

         

        יֻלַד – “was conceived/born” (past tense). To be future tense the יֻלַד – “was born” would be conjugated (and spelled) differently. The future tense is יִוָּלֵד (e.g., Genesis 17:17).

         

        לַנוּ – “to or for us”

         

        בּן – “a son”

         

        נִתַּן – “was given” (past tense) The future tense conjugation, “shall be given”, is יִנָּתֵן (e.g., Esther 9:13), once again, clearly different.

         

        לַנוּ – “to/for us”

         

        וַתְּהִי – “and has-been” (past tense) The future tense in this case, including the preposition “and”, ‘וְ’, would be וְהָיְתָה (e.g., Joel 4:17) – also different.

         

        הַמִּשְׂרָה – “the government”

         

        עַל – “upon”

         

        שִׁכְמוֹ – “his shoulder”

         

         

        וַיִּקְרָ֨א שְׁמ֜וֹ – “He has been named” (also past tense_

         

        פֶּ֠לֶא יוֹעֵץ֙ אֵ֣ל גִּבּ֔וֹר אֲבִי־עַ֖ד “(by) The Mighty God (who)is planning grace; The Eternal Father”

         

        שַׂר־שָׁלֽוֹם – “a peaceable ruler”

         

         

        So this passage should be translated as:

        For a child was born to us [Israel], a son was given to us, and the government has been upon his shoulder… He has been named,  (by) “The Mighty God is planing grace; The Eternal Father”,  a peaceable ruler.

        or in more simple language

        …because a boy has been born for us, a son has been given to us, and one day he will be king… [God] has named him “Peace-Prince”.

         

        So, the bottom line is that in this passage, Isaiah is speaking of someone who was already born and whose greatness has already been foretold. It is not a prophecy about Jesus.

         

        This is christian deception of replacing the PAST tense, ACTIVE verb וַיִּקְרָא (“and He has called”) with the FUTURE tense, PASSIVE form “[his name] shall be called” in their dishonest mistranslations, enabling them to subsume (i.e. absorb) the Divine Title אֵל גִּבּוֹר into the “name” of the child the prophet is talking about and, by doing this, to invent a fictitious human child who “will be called God”.

        Also christian translation ignores jewish cultural context that is : God is NOT a man —no Jews  would ever even think of actually naming a child “God”.

         

         

         

      • Eric,
        Your teachers teach you how to refute truth , but by using falsehoods.
        You have been taught WHAT to say, and you have been taught HOW to say it with passion, but you have not been taught HOW to think for yourself.
        You cannot question Allah, Muhammad, or Islam or the Quran. That is what you have been taught and that is what is engraved in your thinking through daily prayers. You don’t have and are forbidden to search out anything on your own. You only know what your teachers tell you.
        All I know I have sought out on my own, researched on my own, with God’s Word and Spirit as my teacher, but I have questioned everything including whether or not the Bible is an accurate and uncorrupted translation of the ancient manuscripts.

      • I have been searching for truth for a quarter of century and still continue to study the scriptures. The more I study the more I convince that triune god is man-made and at odd with what God had revealed to Abraham, Moses, Jesus and Muhammad, they are all genuine prophets of God.

        I studied scriptures on my own in original languages Arabic and Hebrew (but I dont really interested with Koine greek because I dont consider it as a divine language. Jesus spoke Aramaic, which is a semitic language very close to Arabic and Hebrew , not Greek. During my quest I always prayed sincerely to God directly hoping that God leads me to the truth (I did not pray to Muhammad nor to Jesus)

      • Yes, only Jesus Christ was fully God and fully man. Again, you say ridiculous and we say miraculous.
        God does the miraculous.

      • CCT if Christ was fully man, you worship a being who was in part a fully human being.

        Worshiping a human being is of course egregious sin. You must flee idolatry. In case you need a reminder, the first two of 613 statements of law from the Tanakh condemn those who worship other than “God” and human creations.

        Jesus himself confessed that he has God:

        I ascend to my Father and your Father, and my God and your God. Jhn 20:17.

        There is no God but one…. for us there is but one God, the Father, out of whom are all things and we to Him… 1 Cor 8:6.

      • Eric,
        Uor bodies are only shells for our spirits. God is Spirit. His Spirit inhabited a body in order be a sinless human who could pay the sin debt for humans.

      • If Jesus human body was inhabited by God spirit , this does not mean Jesus is unique. God can inhabit every human being, we can say God is within every of His creation. However Jesus was still human body with human mind… and most importantly God is always God. These are two separate entities.

        And danger still, you worship Human Jesus. This is idolatry.

      • Jesus is God. To deny that is anti-Christ. The divinity of Jesus Christ is central to Christian doctrine and belief. You cannot go to Heaven without this belief.

      • Jesus never said he is god. What we know that he worship his God. He prayed to his God. Therefore Jesus is not God.

      • He did both.(John 8,The Bible )

        57Then the Jews said to Him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?”

        58Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.”

        59Then they took up stones to throw at Him; but Jesus hid Himself and went out of the temple,fn going through the midst of them, and so passed by.

      • Jesus was “before” Abraham do not mean that Jesus must have been God. He did not actually physically exist as a person; rather he “existed” in  as God’s knowledge for the messenger and prophet for the jews.

        A careful reading of the context of the verse shows that Jesus was speaking of “existing” in God’s foreknowledge. Verse 56  says: “Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.” This verse says that Abraham “saw” the Day of Christ, which mean to be the day when God sets up his kingdom. That would fit with what the book of Hebrews says about Abraham: “For he was looking forward to the city with foundations, whose architect and builder is God” (Heb. 11:10).

        Abraham looked for a city that is still future, yet the Bible says Abraham “saw” it. In what sense could Abraham have seen something that was future? Was Abraham God?

        Of course Not.

        He “saw” the Day because God revealed him it was coming, and Abraham “saw” it by faith. That prove that the day existed in the mind of God long before Abraham. Thus, in the context of God’s plan existing from the beginning, Jesus certainly was “before” Abraham. Jesus was the plan of God for guiding the jews,  long before Abraham lived. It is wrong to think that Jesus’ statement makes him God.

      • Eric,
        Check this out.
        *** Islamophobic site***

        Muslims who have converted to Christianity, why they converted, even though your religion of peace says they should be murdered for leaving Islam.

      • The site you linked is a hate site, and not much of scholarships and truth in it. Do not be deceived.

        IF you have question about Islam please bring one particular issue then we can discuss in civil manner.

        I have seen more christians became muslims than muslims who became christian in my life (some of my family were former christians), the noticeable different is that those christians who became muslims were once very knowledgeable christians but not the other way around.

      • Eric,
        You know Islam means Submit. Islam calls for taxing, harrasment, and terror, and even “Strike the infidels on the neck” is called for in the Quran. Convert or die is not true religion. It is tyrrany.

      • What an amount of hate you have toward the religion of God.

        You made a serious allegation that: Islam calls for taxing, harrasment, and terror, and even “Strike the infidels on the neck”

        Please bring your evidences for what you claim, can you?

      • Eric,
        Here is the first verse.

        Zakat-Taxes- Then when the Sacred Months (the Ist, 7th, 11th, and 12th months of the Islamic calendar) have passed, then kill theMushrikun (see V.2:105) wherever you find them, and capture them and besiege them, and prepare for them each and every ambush. But if they repent and perform As-Salat (Iqamat-as-Salat), and give Zakat, then leave their way free. Verily, Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.
        (Quran 9:5)

      • CCT, this is not about Tax. You are wrong.

        You can not quote a verse and rip off its context.  Here is the verse again with my translation:

        فَإِذَا انسَلَخَ الْأَشْهُرُ الْحُرُمُ فَاقْتُلُوا الْمُشْرِكِينَ حَيْثُ وَجَدتُّمُوهُمْ وَخُذُوهُمْ وَاحْصُرُوهُمْ وَاقْعُدُوا لَهُمْ كُلَّ مَرْصَدٍ ۚ فَإِن تَابُوا وَأَقَامُوا الصَّلَاةَ وَآتَوُا الزَّكَاةَ فَخَلُّوا سَبِيلَهُمْ ۚ إِنَّ اللَّهَ غَفُورٌ رَّحِيمٌ

        And when the forbidden months have passed, then kill the pagan-polytheists wherever you find them and capture them and besiege them and sit in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they should repent, establish prayer, and give zakah, let them [go] on their way. Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.

        The fact that the verse actually starts with the Arabic conjunction “fa فَ” translated above as “but,” indicates this verse has its  context in preceding verses.

        بَرَاءَةٌ مِّنَ اللَّهِ وَرَسُولِهِ إِلَى الَّذِينَ عَاهَدتُّم مِّنَ الْمُشْرِكِينَ

        [This is a declaration of] disassociation, from Allah and His Messenger, to those with whom you had made a treaty among the pagans.

        Verse 1 gives the historical context as a violation of the peace Treaty of Hudaybîyah, signed  between prophet Muhammad and his followers and those pagans who had spent a decade trying to destroy them.

        فَسِيحُوا فِي الْأَرْضِ أَرْبَعَةَ أَشْهُرٍ وَاعْلَمُوا أَنَّكُمْ غَيْرُ مُعْجِزِي اللَّهِ ۙ وَأَنَّ اللَّهَ مُخْزِي الْكَافِرِينَ

        وَأَذَانٌ مِّنَ اللَّهِ وَرَسُولِهِ إِلَى النَّاسِ يَوْمَ الْحَجِّ الْأَكْبَرِ أَنَّ اللَّهَ بَرِيءٌ مِّنَ الْمُشْرِكِينَ ۙ وَرَسُولُهُ ۚ فَإِن تُبْتُمْ فَهُوَ خَيْرٌ لَّكُمْ ۖ وَإِن تَوَلَّيْتُمْ فَاعْلَمُوا أَنَّكُمْ غَيْرُ مُعْجِزِي اللَّهِ ۗ وَبَشِّرِ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا بِعَذَابٍ أَلِيمٍ

         So travel freely, [O pagans], throughout the forbidden land [during] four months but know that you cannot cause failure to Allah and that Allah will disgrace the disbelievers.
        And [it is] an announcement from Allah and His Messenger to the people on the day of the greater pilgrimage that Allah is disassociated from the disbelievers, and [so is] His Messenger. So if you repent, that is best for you; but if you turn away – then know that you will not cause failure to Allah . And give tidings to those who disbelieve of a painful punishment.

         

        Verse 2 and 3 were revealed through prophet Muhammad to give pagans living in holy city of Mecca a special amnesty period which lasted four-month.

        إِلَّا الَّذِينَ عَاهَدتُّم مِّنَ الْمُشْرِكِينَ ثُمَّ لَمْ يَنقُصُوكُمْ شَيْئًا وَلَمْ يُظَاهِرُوا عَلَيْكُمْ أَحَدًا فَأَتِمُّوا إِلَيْهِمْ عَهْدَهُمْ إِلَىٰ مُدَّتِهِمْ ۚ إِنَّ اللَّهَ يُحِبُّ الْمُتَّقِينَ

        Excepted are those with whom you made a treaty among the pagans and then they have not been deficient toward you in anything or supported anyone against you; so complete for them their treaty until their term [has ended]. Indeed, Allah loves the righteous [who fear Him].

        Verse 4 makes clear that during that period of amnesty, pagans were to be left untouched so that Muslims would not themselves become promise-breakers. After clarifying that the threatened violence would apply only to those who had ignored the warnings and continued to practice polytheism or idolatry in and around the holy city and its sanctuary, and were still foolish enough not to have left after four months, verse 5 give a strong warning to them that there would be a military purging or purification in which they seriously risked being killed.

        Even though this verse actually has a secondary clause which, after the direction to root out and kill anyone who had ignored the clear and solemn warnings and continued their polytheism or idolatry:  enjoined Muslims to remember that they must be merciful (“to open the way”) to those who repented and accepted their penitent obligations in terms of Islam. Moreover, the verse  is immediately followed by an unusually charitable one in which any of the enemy who asked for asylum during any coming violence were not only to be excluded from that violence, but were to be escorted to a place of safety in proceeding verse.

        وَإِنْ أَحَدٌ مِّنَ الْمُشْرِكِينَ اسْتَجَارَكَ فَأَجِرْهُ حَتَّىٰ يَسْمَعَ كَلَامَ اللَّهِ ثُمَّ أَبْلِغْهُ مَأْمَنَهُ ۚ ذَٰلِكَ بِأَنَّهُمْ قَوْمٌ لَّا يَعْلَمُونَ

        And if any one of the pagans seeks your protection, then grant him protection so that he may hear the words of Allah . Then deliver him to his place of safety. That is because they are a people who do not know.

        The rest of Chapter 9 of the holy Qur’an contains more explanation for the Muslims as to why they would now need to fight, and fiercely, anyone who broke their oaths or violated the sanctity of holy places, despite earlier hopes for peace according to the terms of the peace Treaty of Hudaybîyah.

        So this verse was a context and time specific  war situation in deliberation of the holy city of Mecca in the year 628 from the Pagans.

        Now this sounds  a very just God unfortunately in the Bible there is no such a thing as just war. There are full instruction to kill the pagans in such a genocidal proportion with no mercy with no rule.

        I give you examples:

        God instruct  widespread acts of genocide: the Girgashites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites,  Hivites, and Jebusites.

        Deuteronomy 7:1-2:

        “… the seven nations greater and mightier than thou; And when the LORD thy God shall deliver them before thee; thou shalt smite them, and utterly destroy them; thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor shew mercy unto them.”

        Joshua 6:21:

        “And they utterly destroyed all that was in the city, both man and woman, young and old, and ox, and sheep, and ass, with the edge of the sword.” 

        This horrendous. How can god instruct to murder all its inhabitants including elderly men and women, mature men and women, pregnant women, youths, boys, girls, infants and newborns.

        This is genocide.

        Joshua 10:40-41:

        “So Joshua smote all the country of the hills, and of the south, and of the vale, and of the springs, and all their kings: he left none remaining, but utterly destroyed all that breathed, as the LORD God of Israel commanded. And Joshua smote them from Kadesh-barnea even unto Gaza, and all the country of Goshen, even unto Gibeon.”

        As the LORD commanded Moses“, all of the rest were defeated in battle; their cities and populations were destroyed. This included people of all ages: men, women children, infants and newborns. 

         

        Islam do not believe God ever instructed such a thing. Thats why believe the bible has already corrupted by human hand so that such absurd stories are told.

         

        The holy Qur’an has a high moral code of just war.
        The bible  contains FAR  more violence and bloody  in the holy Quran  with no restriction to cruelty that:
        • “god” instruct to kill all the men, WOMEN, AND CHILDREN of every city.
        • “god” instructs TO KILL, WITHOUT MERCY, all the inhabitants (strangers) of the land that they conquer.
        • In the cities that god “delivers into thine hands” YOU MUST KILL ALL THE MALES (INCLUDING OLD MEN, BOYS, AND BABIES)
        • “But of the cities … which the Lord thy God doth give thee for an inheritance, thou shalt save alive nothing that breatheth.” KILL THE OLD MEN AND WOMEN, THE SICK AND THE DYING, THE BLIND AND THE LAME, PREGNANT MOTHERS, NURSING MOTHERS, INFANTS, TODDLERS, AND BABIES.
        There is no such a thing in the holy Qur’an

         

      • I cannot explain why God would command those purgings, but I can say this. Those were temporarily instituted genocidal purgings that by the way, did not prevent God’s chosen people from eventually turning to sin and away from following God. To thoroughly cleans an area, such as the area around or even in Mecca or Medina, you would have to eliminate the presence of ALL people who do not believe Jesus Christ is God, Lord,and Savior, for only He can forgive sins.
        Eric,
        Can’t you see? What you went to all the bother to give with the one hand, you took again with the other! The genocide in the Old Testament was closed ended. The genocide in Islam is open ended because it is a continuous doctrine.
        Christ changed those ways because God had proven to man, I think, that it doesn’t work.

      • //I cannot explain why God would command those purgings, but I can say this. Those were temporarily instituted genocidal purgings that by the way, did not prevent God’s chosen people from eventually turning to sin and away from following God.//

         

        Really, God order to kill  old non-combatant, and ox, and sheep, and ass??

        What those creatures guilty of? or  to do with sin?? No

        What a contrast with genuine revelation of God, the Qur’an.

         

        The Quran says very clearly

        وَلَا تَقْتُلُوا النَّفْسَ الَّتِي حَرَّمَ اللَّهُ إِلَّا بِالْحَقِّ ۗ وَمَن قُتِلَ مَظْلُومًا فَقَدْ جَعَلْنَا لِوَلِيِّهِ سُلْطَانًا فَلَا يُسْرِف فِّي الْقَتْلِ ۖ إِنَّهُ كَانَ مَنصُورًا

        “And do not kill any one whom Allah has forbidden, except for a just cause, and whoever is slain unjustly, We have indeed given to his heir authority, so let him not exceed the just limits in slaying; surely he is aided (Q 17:33).

        ” In other words, killing is permitted only when it is justified, such as in a war to end persecution, or to seek retribution as long as it does not exceed the limits prescribed by God.

        Prophet Muhammad also forbade the killing of women and children (Bukhari V. 4, Book 52, 257 & 258).

        And these are the instructions that were given to Muslim armies by Caliph Abu Bakr who succeeded Prophet Muhammad:

        “When you gain victory over your enemies do not kill their children, old people nor women. Do not go even closer to their date palms nor burn the harvest nor cut the trees bearing fruits. Do not break the promise once you have made it and do not break the terms of a treaty once you have entered into it. You will find some people in the monasteries, monks engaged in the worship of God, leave them alone with what they are pleased with. Do not destroy their monasteries and do not kill them.”

         

        The Bible do not put any restriction, unlike the Quran and the teaching of prophet Muhammad,

        Is god a monster?

        Those genocides are NOT temporary nor closed ended. This is a moral example binding to all generations who believe the bible is from God (like Hitler) unless of course you don’t consider it is actually the word of God.

         

        //Christ changed those ways because God had proven to man that it doesn’t work. //

        so god change his mind? you can not be serious about this?

        Even Jesus in the gospel was depicted as militant leader

        Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth; I have not come to bring peace, but a sword.
        (Matt. 10:34)

        Jesus clearly claim  he didn’t have any intention to bring peace. Jesus had also prepared for the armed rebellion against Roma, he wanted to restore God kingdom on earth. Jesus equipped his followers with swords in anticipation of trouble. (Lk 22:36-38) and at least one of Jesus’ supporters scuffled with the Temple police to aid in resisting Jesus’ arrest. (Mk 14:47)

         

         

      • Ask Imam or Islamic scholars in nearest Mosque, read the Qur’an in original holy language of Arabic, study the context from the hadiths (prophet Muhammad sayings). God-Willing, you will guided.

        Do not study Islam, taking information from hate-sites in internet or from Islamophobe books. Satan will deceive you.

      • You are the one who so hate religion and prophet of God: Islam and prophet Muhammad. I have no doubt I follow the true teaching of Jesus taught by the holy Qur’an. 

Why you choose to follow the teaching of greco-roman pagans who believe in demi-god who god incarnate to man, like in greek mythology.

        Time and time again this is confirmed in the gospels when it says that Jesus is the “son of man.”

        We have stronger evidence that:

        1. God is not a man


        2. God is not a son of man


        3. Do not put your faith in the son of man there is no salvation


        4. God is unchanging He is as He always was and will be


        5. One means ONE.

      • Eric,
        Here again from John’s Gospel, Jesus declares He is come down from Heaven. (John 6:,The Bible)

      •  

         

        The Jews would not have taken John’s words to mean that Christ “incarnated.” It was common for them to say that something “came from heaven” if God were its source.

        For example, James 1:17 says that every good gift is “from above” and “comes down” from God. What James means is clear. God is the Author and source of the good things in our lives. God works behind the scenes to provide what we need. The verse does not mean that the good things in our lives come directly down from heaven.

        You are deluded to believe that God “came down” as man. This is blasphemy.

      • Paul the Apostle was a religious leaders who was purging the Jews who converted to follow Jesus Christ. Christ appeared to him in glorified form, blinding him. A believer was sent to at least partially restore his sight, and give him instructions.

      • Paul was NOT prophet Jesus disciple. Do not be too naive.

        He never personally met Jesus
        He always hostile to Jesus and his followers

        He claim to have “vision” , how can we trust a person who oppose Jesus and claim to have vision. The vision could be from other than God but from Satan the deceiver, because Paul did not like Jesus and his true teaching from the start.

      • Eric,
        You made the strongest case AGAINST Islam yourself.

      • Unlike Saul of Tarsus who was hostile to prophet Jesus from the start , Prophet Muhammad was known to be man of trustworthy and piety before he received his revelation. It was well known and documented.

      • Eric,
        Being Muslim you are likely raised Muslim and never investigated opposing views.
        Recommended reading “The Life of Muhammad” written by the Muslim historian Ibn Ishaq in 768 AD. The book gives an accurate picture of Muhammad… The very violent and aggressive military commander who fought and killed neighboring tribes into submission.

        One book reviewer writes:

        “Ishaq provides details identifying names of both Muslims and Non-Muslims in multiple engagements, sequencing and phasing of the fighting characterizing various attacks, description, background and narratives of specifically targeted assassination raids, and of the murders of other raid and expedition survivors. For example, the attack on B.Fazara resulted in the capture of Umm Qirfa Fatima d. Rabi’a b. Badr. “She was a very old woman, wife of Malik.” And she was murdered “by putting a rope to her two legs and to two camels and driving until they rent her in two (p. 665). Muhammad’s piecemeal, leisurely, butchery of between 600 – 900 survivors of the raid on B. Qurayza is described on page 464 and the parceling of the Qurayza property, women and (36) horses among the Muslims is described on page 466.”

      • I have read opposing sides from islam haters sites.

        The story of Umm Fatima is twisted. I have the book of Seerah from Ibn Ishaq, but you have to  also read  the accounts of the event given in both Seerah Ibn Hisham and Tabaqat Ibn S’ad to understand better   what actually happened.

        1- Zaid bin Harith (RA) went on a trading journey to Syria and with him was the merchandise for Companions of the Prophet (PBUH). While he was near Wadi’l Qura’ he encountered people from the Tribe of Badr of Fazara, whose leader was Umm Qirfa. They attacked him and his companions and snatched all they had of merchandise.

        2- Some of his fellows were killed and he himself was carried wounded from the field. Zaid vowed that he would not wash his head for ritual purity (i.e. he vowed to abstain from sexual intercourse) until he fought the people of Fazara.

        3- When he recovered from his wounds the Holy Prophet (PBUH) sent him to punish the treacherous people and ordered them to move by the night and rest by the day as a stratagem.

        4- Zaid went and fought the Fazara in Wadi’l Qura, killed some of them. Qais bin Musahhar killed Mas’ada bin Hakama. Umm Qirfa, her daughter and Abdullah bin Mas’ada were taken as prisoners. Zaid ordered Qais bin Musahhar to kill Umm Qirfa and Qais killed her by putting a rope in her two legs, tying it to two camels and driving them in opposite directions until she was killed, ripped apart.
        (Tabaqaat Ibn Sa’d 2/90 & Sirat Ibn Hisham 2/617)

        In Sirat Halbiyya, another source they cite on this issue, it is clearly stated;

        “Zaid bin Harith went on a trading expedition towards Syria and with him was the merchandise for the Companions of the Holy Prophet (PBUH). While he was near Wadi’l Qura he met a party from the Tribe of Fazara of Banu Badr. They attacked him and his companions and snatched all that was with them (of merchandise).” (Sirat Halabiyya 2/192)

        5- Further we learn that Umm Qirfa in her capacity of being the tribal leader plotted to harm the Holy Prophet (PBUH) in person (Ar-Raheeq al-Makhtum p.457). In Sirat Halabiyya it is stated that;

        “Zaid bin Harith ordered the killing of Umm Qirfa for she used to revile the Prophet, on whom be peace and blessings of Allah, and because she had prepared thirty riders from amongst he children and grand children and had asked them to attack Medina and kill Muhammad (PBUH).” (Sirat Halabaiyya 3/251)

        Facts and the Lies!

        Now this clarifies certain points.

        1- It was the Tribe of Fazara, which was headed by Umm Qirfa, who first attacked Muslims who were merely on trading journey.

        2- They killed Muslims and took their merchandise.

        3- Muslims made a counter attack to punish the trigger-happy tribe.

        4- There is no authentic report whether Holy Prophet Muhammad ordered her killing specifically. Infact it was Zaid bin Harith (RA) who ordered her killing as she was, being the leader of the tribe, responsible for all that happened. And we just read Zaid himself had seen their aggression and merely survived it.

        5- Her killing was perfectly justified as she led her tribe to commit violence against Muslims. She was no innocent a woman and was rather a hostile enemy.

        6- The manner she was killed was not ordained by the Prophet Muhammad, but was carried on by the people who had undergone the terror practiced by her men. It was a reaction by such people; nevertheless it goes against the mannerism taught by Islam. And though such a behavior is deplorable, it is Umm Qirfa herself who is to be held responsible for such a reaction.

        7- No authentic report makes any mention of her head being brought to the Prophet Muhammad and then paraded in the streets of Medina. This is a myth and a lie! The books these slanderers produce as a reference are no authority as they are not written by trustworthy people and no authentic report in any of the classical books gives even a hint to such a happening.

         

      • And no, I will not be traveling to a Mosque to talk to an Imam. Islam is a hateful and aggressive military type religion.

      • Then you are not sincerely seeking truth and choose to be blinded by hate.

        If Islam is hateful why did most of the brutal aggression and colonialism in the world started by christians??

        Islam is no comparable in the atrocities committed by christians or in the name of Christianity.

        SInce Saint Augustine’s cognite intrare (“lead them in”—i.e. “force them to convert. During the war for othodoxy, christians have suffered more under the rule of Christian civilization than under pre- Christian Roman rule or any other rule in history.

        How about the Crusades?, Europe’s Reformation and Counter Reformation Era? the African slave trade?, the Colonial Conquests which (my ancestors greatly suffered), the three world wars?

        How about the genocides done by Catholic Hitler? the Rawandan gennocide, the Bosnian genocide?

        Millions people were killed The number far exceeds those committed by muslims or in the name of Islam.

        See, no matter how you want to portray it in terms of its bloodthirsty and intolerant passages, the Bible raises considerably more violence than does the Qur’an.

        Bible passages justify genocide and multigenerational race war; the Qur’an has nothing comparable.

      • Then hear Jesus from John’s Gospel.

        21“For as the Father raises the dead and gives life to them, even so the Son gives life to whom He will.

        22“For the Father judges no one, but has committed all judgment to the Son,

        23“that all should honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him.

        24“Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.”
        (John 5:,The Bible )

      • Two points to note:

        1. It is clear from those passages that it was God , the Father, who has the higher authority, not Jesus.
        2. The audience Jesus inttended when he says: “he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life” was the jews only, not Gentiles
        Because Jesus said CLEARLY “I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel.” Mat 15:24

        While Prophet Muhammad was sent by God to ALL humanity.

        God says in the Qur’an:

        وَمَا أَرْسَلْنَاكَ إِلَّا رَحْمَةً لِّلْعَالَمِينَ

        And We have not sent you, [O Muhammad], except as a MERCY to the worlds.

        Praise God.

      • I agree, God does the miraculous.

        But God can not be at the same time a human. This is a not miracle but illogical farce, a mockery to God nature.

        God is not the author of confusion.

        At John 17:3, Jesus makes a very important statement regarding his God

        This is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.

        Father…. You, the only true God…. “

      • Jesus is showing us how to pray also. He did accept worship also.

      • The greek proskyneo προσκυνέω word which have been translated as “worship.” do not the same with the English word “worship as in religious sense.  The  word means simply to bow down before a higher authority, eg Revelation 3:8-9.

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