Isaiah 9:6 Messiah God?

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Kaleef K. Karim

Isaiah 9:6  is one of the most favourite verse Christians love to bring-up for the deity of Jesus. According to Christian trinitarians, they believe Isaiah 9:6, without doubt proves that the person that is mentioned is Divine and is “Yahweh in Flesh.” We have to take a look and see what does the Hebrew words “El Gibor” mean, is “El Gibor” (‘Mighty God’, trinitarian translation) only used for God alone? Have humans been called by that name i.e “El” and “Gibor?” We shall find out. Here is the passage:

Isaiah 9:6  For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

If anyone just reads the above verse at face value it looks as if the person who is mentioned is indeed “God.” But if we take a closer look at the verse after a thorough examination, you would realise the verse does not say anything about the person being “God” at all! The words have been twisted and changed by Trinitarians  and made it out as if it saying the person is “God in flesh.”

Related Article:
Isaiah 7:14, Immanuel: Prophecy of Jesus?

 

1. Is the Hebrew word “El gibor” only used for God?


What does the word “El” mean? Does the word “El” refer to God alone? Here is the following meanings for “El” from a Christian website:

1) god, god-like one, mighty one
a) mighty men, men of rank, mighty heroes
b) angels
c) god, false god, (demons, imaginations)
d) God, the one true God, Jehovah
2) mighty things in nature
3) strength, power [1]

Have you noticed the word “El” is NOT exclusively referred to Yahweh (God) alone. It is referred to ‘god-like’, ‘mighty men’, ‘men of rank’, ‘mighty heroes’ and even ‘angels’. If you read the following passage, Ezekiel 33:11, the term “El” is used for a King:

Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thou hast lifted up thyself in height, and he hath shot up his top among the thick boughs, and his heart is lifted up in his height; I have therefore delivered him into the hand of the mighty one (El) of the heathen.

According to the above verse, God (Yahweh) says he delivered the person in the “hand of the Mighty one” (el), i.e the Heathen king. So should we attribute divinity to the king,  like the true “Elohim?” Obvious response from the Christian Missionary, when they have no leg to stand on, they would respond by saying: “no he cannot be the true ‘God’, since he is a human being.” This verse below you will notice the word “giborim” used in Plural.

Ezekiel 32:12 By the swords of the mighty (giborim) will I cause thy multitude to fall, the terrible of the nations, all of them: and they shall spoil the pomp of Egypt, and all the multitude thereof shall be destroyed.

The following passage, has the words “El” and “gibor” together simultaneously:

Ezekiel 32:21 The strong (El) among the mighty (gibor) shall speak to him out of the midst of hell with them that help him: they are gone down, they lie uncircumcised, slain by the sword. [2]

Notice how the above verse (Ezekiel 32:21) has the exact words as Isaiah 9:6, but in plural. Since the words “El” and “gibor” are used simultaneously together, should the people referred to be Divine like Yahweh? Isaiah 9:6, and Ezekiel are both the same, except in Ezekiel 32:21 it is used in plural. If Christian trinitarians are so truthful and consistent, why don’t they write in their Bible translations “MIGHTY GODS” in capital letters for Ezekiel 32:21?

There are some trinitarians who will try to argue and say, ‘actually they are not ‘Gods’, since they were Gentiles, Heathen Kings.’ These type of arguments Apologists cling on to have no basis whatsoever. It doesn’t matter if the people were not believers, or were gentiles, heathens etc. Fact of the matter is, they were called “Ele Giborim” (‘Mighty Gods’).  If Apologists continue to say “Isaiah 9:6 proves the Child is God”, than Christian apologists, at-least be truthful with yourselves, and start making the heathen Kings GODS as well, since both passages, Isaiah 9:6, and Ezekiel 32:21 use the exact same words.

2. Isaiah 9:6 is not talking about a future prophecy

2. 1 JPS Isaiah 9:6 – For a Child has been born to us, a son has been given to us and authority has settled on his shoulders. 

2. 2 NET Bible (2006) Isaiah 9:6 – For a child has been born to us, a son has been given to us. …

2. 3 The message Isaiah 9:6 – For a child has been born–for us! the gift of a son–for us! …

2. 4 Contemporary English version Isaiah 9:6 – A child has been born for us. We have been given a son…

2. 5 Lexham English Bible Isaiah 9:6 – For a child has been born for us; a son has been given to us. …

2. 6 New Century version Isaiah 9:6 – A child has been born to us; God has given a son to us. …

2. 7 The Empathised Bible Isaiah 9:6 – For, A Child, hath been born to us, A Son, hath been given to us…

2. 8 Young’s Literal Translation Isaiah 9:6 – For a Child hath been born to us, A Son hath been given to us…

How can Isaiah 9:6 be a prophecy of Jesus if the incident already took place, before the coming of the Messiah (Jesus)? Read the words at the start, “has been born to us, a son has.” Something that happened before Jesus, but somehow trinitarians try and argue that “this is a Prophecy of Jesus.” If something happened in the PAST, it happened in the past! You can’t try change its meaning and say:- “this is a Prophecy of the future.”

3. What Scholars say on Isaiah 9:6:

3. 1 Reverend. G. Buchanan:

–Mighty God]… the great (and) mighty God, Dt 10:17, Neh 9:32, Jer 32:18. The ambiguous of Ezekiel 32:21, the application of to Nebuchadnezzar in Ezekiel 31:11 and the fact, if it be such, that in the remaining three clauses of the name here the words are cstr. And gen., scarcely justify a departure from the obvious rendering mighty God in favour of god of a hero and still less a whittling down of the meaning of, to hero, so that the clause means no more than “mighty hero.[3]

3. 2 T.R. Applebury and Paul T. Butler:

This child is also called ‘el gibor’, Mighty God. Literally God-Hero. One who overcomes, a victor, would be appropriate synonyms [4] 

Reading the above scholarly statements, when ‘El gibor’ is used in Isaiah 9:6, for the child it only means: – ‘Mighty Hero’ or ‘Mighty Warrior’. And this is the correct way of translating the verse.

If Evangelists keep on insisting that ‘Mighty God’ is the correct translation for Isaiah 9:6, then they have to be consistent and also apply the same criteria for  Ezekiel 32:21, and write ‘Mighty Gods’ instead of ‘Mighty Warrior’ for the heathen Kings. Remember, as I showed earlier, Isaiah 9:6 and Ezekiel 32 :21 have both got the same Hebrew words (El Gibor – El giborim), but yet trintarians translate Isaiah 9:6 as ‘MIGHTY GOD’ for the child. Yet, when it comes to Ezekiel, they write ‘Mighty Warrior’. This is not being consistent. This is lying and deliberately misleading people.

The previous three Scholars quoted are not the only ones that disagree with trinitarian translations for Isaiah 9:6. There are many Christian Scholars who also agree that Isaiah 9:6 when translated, it should be translated as ‘Mighty Hero’ or ‘Mighty Warrior’, not ‘Mighty God’! Let’s quote more Scholars:

3. 3 Biblical Scholar Arthur Samuel Peake:

‘Mighty God’. Better, divine warrior, (Heb. El Gibbor, literally, a God of a warrior). The term ‘El’ was not exclusively used of beings believed to be really divine (x. 21) but was employed also of men in whom, as invested with godlike power or authority… The expression Divine warrior describes the child as endued with superhuman prowess. [5] 

 


3. 4 The revised English Bible who was planned and directed by representatives of:

The Baptist Union of Great Britain.
The Church of England
The Church of Scotland
The council of Churches of Wales
The Irish council of Churches
The London Yearly Meeting of the religious society of friends
The Methodist church of Great Britain
The Moravian Church in Great Britain and Ireland
The Roman Catholic Church in England and Wales
The Roman Catholic Church in Ireland
The Roman Catholic Church in Scotland
The Salvation Army
The United Reform Church
The Bible society
The National Bible Society of Scotland

Sixteen different Christian denominations, all came together and translated Isaiah 9:6:

“For a child has been born to us, a son is given to us; he will bear the symbol of dominion on his shoulder, and his title will be: Wonderful counsellor, Mighty Hero, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace” [6]

Sixteen different Christian denominations coming together and stating “el gibor” does not mean “Mighty God.” According to them”El gibor” means “Mighty hero” when used for Isaiah 9:6. 

3. 5 Professor of Greek and New Testament, James Moffatt:

“For a child is born to us, a child has been given to us; the royal dignity he wears, and this the title bears – ‘A wonder of a counsellor, a divine hero, a father for all time, a peaceful prince’” [7]


 In Jewish culture, if you read the Old Testament, there are many examples where people/prophets been called by “Godly” names. The Jewish study Bible:

  • Isaiah in Hebrew means “The Lord saves.”
  • Hezekiah means “The Lord strengthens.”
  • Merodach-baladan (Isaiah 39:1) means “the god Marduk has provided an heir.”

Straight after giving these examples (above), the “JSB” says the following on Isaiah 9:6:

“The name given to the child in this verse (Isaiah 9) does not describe that child or attribute divinity to him.”[8]

3. 6 Adolph Ernst Knoch:

Concordant Literal Version Isaiah 9:6 A son, he is given to us, and the chieftain-ship shall come to be on his shoulder and one shall call his name Marvelous counsel to the master shall he bring, unto the chief, well-being. [9] 

3. 7 Ferrar Fenton Bible translation:

Isaiah 9:6 For a son has been born, a gift to us,- On his shoulder the princedom rests,- The wonderful Counsellor, call his NAME, GREAT LEADER, Time’s Father, the Prince of Peace! Now endless order and Peace shall spread O’er David’s Kingdom and throne.[10]

3. 8 Charles Thomson Bible translation:

Thomson’s Translation: Isaiah 9:5 away, and the rod which was over their neck. For he hath broken the rod of the exactor, as in the day of Madiam : for, with a renewal of friendship, they shall make compensation for every robe collected by deceit, and for every garment; and shall be willing to do so, if they were burned with fire : 6 because for us a child is born, and to us a son is given, whose government is on his own shoulder ; and his name is called, ” The Messenger of Great Counsel” For I will bring peace.[11]

3. 9. The Septuagint LXX translated by Sir Lancelot C.L. Brenton:

Isaiah 9:6 For a child is born to us, and a son is given to us, whose government is upon his shoulder: and his name is called the Messenger of great counsel: for I will bring peace upon the princes, and health to him. 7 His government shall be great, and of his peace there is no end: it shall be upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to establish it, and to support it with judgement and with righteousness, from henceforth and forever. [12]

3. 10 Craig A. Evans:

“[cf. Isa 9:6], suggesting that the passage was understood in a messianic sense in the first century. The LXX seems to understand the passage in a messianic sense. We find in the Greek version a similar effort to AVOID applying to the Davidide divine epithets (‘and his name is called The Messenger of Great counsel’”).”[13]

We conclude from this section that Isaiah 9:6 should be translated as ‘Mighty Hero’ for the child. I have quoted more than 10 Scholars for the verse and they all agree that ‘Mighty Hero’ is the most appropriate translation for Isaiah 9:6.

4. Jesus: “Prince of Peace?”

Isaiah 9:6

4. 1 Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35″For I came to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; 36 and a man’s enemies will be the members of his household. (Matthew 10:34-36)

4. 2 Do you suppose that I came to grant peace on earth? I tell you, no, but rather division; 52 for from now on five members in one household will be divided, three against two, and two against three…” (Luke 12:51,52)

4. 3 And He said to them, “But now, let him who has a purse take it along, likewise also a bag, and let him who has no sword sell his robe and buy one. (Luke 22:36)

This next verse is very interesting indeed! Jesus will come back to murder:

“But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them—bring them here and kill them in front of me.’ ” (Luke 19:27)

This above verse is something special. In the verse, Jesus describes himself to a “King” and getting to the main point, we see from the passage, when Jesus comes back the second time, whoever does not accept him as a King. He (Jesus) will slaughter them, mainly the Jews. How do we know Luke 19:27 is about Jesus, and that he will murder people for not accepting him as a King? Well let’s read the following Commentary on the Bible, by Mathew Henry. He writes:

“In the sentence passed upon them at his return: Those mine enemies bring hither, v. 27. When his faithful subjects are preferred and rewarded, then he will take vengeance on his enemies, and particularly on the Jewish nation, the doom of which is here read. When Christ had set up his gospel kingdom, and thereby put reputation upon the gospel ministry, then he comes to reckon with the Jews; then it is remembered against them that they had particularly disclaimed and protested against his kingly office, when they said, We have no king but Cæsar, nor would own him for their king. They appealed to Cæsar, and to Cæsar they shall go; Cæsar shall be their ruin. Then the kingdom of God appeared when vengeance was taken on those irreconcilable enemies to Christ and his government; they were brought forth and slain before him. Never was so much slaughter made in any war as in the wars of the Jews. That nation lived to see Christianity victorious in the Gentile world, in spite of their enmity and opposition to it, and then it was taken away as dross. The wrath of Christ came upon them to the uttermost (1 Thess. ii. 15, 16), and their destruction redounded very much to the honour of Christ and the peace of the church. But this is applicable to all others who persist in their infidelity, and will undoubtedly perish in it. Note, [1.] Utter ruin will certainly be the portion of all Christ’s enemies; in the day of vengeance they shall all be brought forth, and slain before him. Bring them hither, to be made a spectacle to saints and angels; see Josh. x. 22, 24. Bring them hither, that they may see the glory and happiness of Christ and his followers, whom they hated and persecuted. Bring them hither, to have their frivolous pleas overruled, and to receive sentence according to their merits. Bring them, and slay them before me, as Agag before Samuel. The Saviour whom they have slighted will stand by and see them slain, and not interpose on their behalf. [2.] Those that will not have Christ to reign over them shall be reputed and dealt with as his enemies. We are ready to think that none are Christ’s enemies but persecutors of Christianity, or scoffers at least; but you see that those will be accounted so that dislike the terms of salvation, will not submit to Christ’s yoke, but will be their own masters. Note, Whoever will not be ruled by the grace of Christ will inevitably be ruined by the wrath of Christ.[14]


Luke 19:27, contradicts Isaiah 9:6-7:

Isaiah 9:6 For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace. 7 Of the greatness of his government and peace there will be no end. He will reign on David’s throne and over his kingdom, establishing and upholding it with justice and righteousness from that time on and forever. The zeal of the LORD Almighty will accomplish this.

Isaiah 9:6-7 says that the person will be called “Prince of Peace”, and that “Peace there will be no end”, and going further on, the verse states: “establishing and upholding it with justice and righteousness from that time on and forever.”

How could Jesus be the Prophesied Prophet in Isaiah 9:6, when he never came for Peace? Remember, it says he will reign forever in PEACE. Now we know Jesus will come back and slaughter people for not accepting him as a “King” over them. What sort of peaceful ruler is that, when he will be slaughtering people, just for not accepting him as a “King?” As we have read the evidences, it is clear that Isaiah 9:6 could not be a Prophesy of Jesus, since it contradicts verses from the New Testament

Br. Ibn Anwar made some beautiful arguments against “Prince of Peace” arguments Christians love bring up. Visit his article here: http://unveiling-christianity.org/2008/10/25/a-study-of-isaiah-96/


5. There is “one God” and there is none else besides Him:

The old Testament rejects the “Trinity”, it clearly states there is no god besides God, there is nothing equal to God. We see a lot of missionaries try justify Isaiah 9:6 as a bound rock foundation that God is a “Triune God.” If you take a closer look at the Old Testament, God (Yahweh) makes it clear that there is “no one besides him.” There is no Jesus, No Holy Spirit, just God! Read the following verses that teach pure Monotheism:

  • “To whom will you compare me? Or who is my equal?” says the Holy One. (Isaiah 40:25)
  • I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me: (Isaiah 45:5)
  • I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour. (Isaiah 43:11)
  • Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any. (Isaiah 44:8)
  • Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me, (Isaiah 46:9)
  • Yet I am the LORD thy God from the land of Egypt, and thou shalt know no god but me: for there is no saviour beside me. (Hosea 13:4)


Conclusion:

I went over Isaiah 9:6 thoroughly, the verse in no way refers to the child mentioned as being “God.” I showed evidences that people were called ‘Ele Giborim.’ How come none of the trinitarian Bible translators use the word “Mighty Gods” for the Heathen Kings in Ezekiel 32:21? This shows that Christian trinitarians  have deceptively translated the words in Isaiah 9:6, to elevate the divinity of Jesus in the Old testament! Last but not least, I showed that Isaiah 9:6 could not be a Prophecy of Jesus, since it clearly states that the ruler will ‘REIGN FOREVER IN PEACE’. Meaning, he would not kill people. But as I showed, Jesus will come back and slaughter people, just for not accepting him as ‘King’ over them. Showing that the verse does not refer to Jesus.

References:

[1] http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H410&t=KJV
[2]http://www.blueletterbible.org/search/translationResults.cfm?Criteria=mighty%2A+H410&t=KJV
[3] The international critical commentary on the Holy scripture of the Old and New Testament, Reverend. G. Buchanan, professor of Hebrew. page 173
[4] T.R. Applebury and Paul T. Butler Bible study text Book series :Isaiah volume 1. page 173
[5] Arthur Samuel Peake A commentary on the Bible) 1920. page 443
[6] The revised English Bible with Apocrypha page 497
[7] http://thefactsaboutislam.blogspot.co.uk/2011/03/dr-james-moffatt-on-isaiah-96-and.html
[8] The Jewish study Bible page 802
[9] Adolph Ernst Knoch, Concordant Literal Version http://www.concordant.org/version/
[10] Ferrar Fenton Bible http://thetencommandmentsministry.us/ministry/ferrar_fenton/bible/425
[11] Thomson’s Translation Charles Thomson’s English Translation of the Greek Septuagint (LXX) Bible http://thetencommandmentsministry.us/ministry/charles_thomson/isaiah
[12] The Septuagint LXX: Greek and English by Sir Lancelot Charles Lee Brenton (1807-1862) originally published by Samuel Bagster & Sons, Ltd., London, 1851] http://www.ccel.org/bible/brenton/
[13] Craig A. Evans. Jesus and His Contemporaries: Comparative Studies page 174
[14] http://www.ccel.org/ccel/henry/mhc5.Luke.xx.html

 

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22 Responses »

  1. Excellent.

    I wrote an article on the absurdity of the incarnation, perhaps you might find it interesting.

    http://bloggingtheology.wordpress.com/2013/06/19/elijahs-argument/

    Also, Ezekiel 28 had YHWH refuting a man who thinks he is Diety with the same argument that can be applied to Jesus.

    • Thank you brother Semsav

      Great Article, I will surely use it, when debating with Trinitarian’s.

      Jazaka Allahu Khayran

      • I agree… This is good argument against Trinitarians. The author should know There are Christians that are not Trinitarian and believe in the One God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob. Sadly though His Islamic belief of Jesus keeps him from and open minded approach to the research. For example his quote of Like 19:27 is taken out of context, without explaining that this is a parable (story) that Jesus spoke. Secondly, his references to swords. Muhammed spread Islam through the use of the physical sword, but Jesus reference the sword is not physical. The sword he mentions is the Word of God. It is the Word of God that sets families against each other. Why? because the unbelieving members of the family would fight, argue etc against the believing member. This is also shown in Revelation 1:16. Here Jesus is pulling a sword from his mouth, it is his Word. Thirdly, the Old Covenant from Genesis to Malachi are filled with prophesies concerning Jesus. They tell of the coming Messiah, where he is to be born, the escape to Egypt, where he would be raised, his earthly ministry, his betrayal, his crucifiction, and his resurrection, and the outpouring of God’s Spirit. They also speak of the Reign of the Messiah when he returns to earth. This is the parts the Jews of Jesus day were familiar with because of the Roman occupation. They were looking for Messiah the King (of his second coming) that they missed all the other scriptures relating to his earthly ministry. I believe the Q’ran teaches that the only true prophets come from Israel. If so, then you need to search the prophets of Israel diligently. Isaiah says in Chapter 28:10,13 “For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:… But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.” This simply means the prophesies (and we are talking about those of Jesus) would not be written in order of happenings. They are going to this verse and that verse in this book and that book. Here a little and there a litte, meaning they are going to be scattered throughout. Why?verse 13 says, “that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.” It will be confusing, and like your rendition of Isaiah 9:6 a snare. You see… People’s eyes are blinded because they don’t want to know the truth. Either by cultural, family religions, fear, or they just plain don’t believe.

  2. “his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.” Did anyone ever call Jesus: “The everlasting “? If so, who, when & where did s/he call him “The everlasting Father”? Did anyone ever call him: “The mighty God”? If so, when and where? What about Counsellor; John 14:16
    And I will pray the Father, and he will give you another Counselor, to be with you for ever,

    John 14:26
    But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you.

    John 15:26
    But when the Counselor comes, whom I shall send to you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, who proceeds from the Father, he will bear witness to me;

    John 16:7
    Nevertheless I tell you the truth: it is to your advantage that I go away, for if I do not go away, the Counselor will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you.
    another Counselor… another Counselor … another Counselor … another … another The only God is unique. The only son is unique. But there is another counsellor? Why would it be to their advantage? The counsellor was not present! What about the Holy Spirit – was it present or absent in the presence of Jesus?

  3. Actually Adam was is God Himself.

  4. It is true that Christ being a Messiah sent by God is the “Prince Of Peace” in the sense that he Reconcile the sinning people to God through His sacrifice giving His life for them.

  5. Salam Kaleef,

    Read your article. I must say it is a very nice encapsulation of the topic. Keep up the good work bro. Jazakallah for the information you provided through the article 🙂

    Sincerely,
    Q.M.

  6. IN LOVE I WISH TO SAY YOU ARE DOING GREAT. BUT I WISH TO ADVICE YOU THAT YOU SHOULD PUT YOUR EFFORTS IN BUILDING YOUR OWN BELIEF AND YOUR RELIGION. WHY ARE YOU SO PARTICULAR ABOUT DESTROYING CHRISTIANITY? ALL THE COMMENTATORS, COMMENTRIES AND YOUR DENOMINATIONAL 16 MISSIONARIES SOUND ENOUGH TO DISPROVE THE AUTHENTICITY OF THE BIBLE, THE DEITY AND DIVINITY OF JESUS CHRIST AS BOTH GOD AND MAN. MANY GREATER AND MORE FIERCE THAN YOU AND LIKE YOU HAVE RISEN IN THE PAST TO ATTACK THE BIBLE CHRIST AND HIS KINGDOM BUT THEY ALL END UP THE WAY OF DESTRUCTION. EVEN YOUR MASTER AT SWORD POINT KILLING MORE THAN SIX MILLION JEWS AND CHRISTIANS (IN THE PRETENCE OF FIGHTING TO KEEP AND WORSHIP ONE GOD) COULD NOT STOP THE LASTING DURABILITY OF THE BIBLE. HEAR WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS (IF YOU WILL BELIEVE TO SAVE YOUR SOUL FROM ETERNAL DAMNATION) THEREFORE, BELOVED, LOOKING FORWARD TO THESE THINGS, BE DILIGENT TO BE FOUND BY HIM IN PEACE, WITHOUT SPORT AND BLAMELESS; AND ACCOUNT THAT THE LONGSUFFERING OF OUR LORD IS SALVATỊON- AS ALSO OUR BELOVED BROTHER PAUL, ACCORDING TO THE WISDOM GIVEN TO HIM, HAS WRITTEN TO YOU, AS ALSO IN ALL HIS EPISTLES, SPEAKING IN THEM OF THESE THINGS, IN WHICH ARE SOME THINGS HARD TO UNDERSTAND, WHICH THOSE WHO ARE UNTAUGHT AND UNSTABLE TWIST TO THEIR OWN DESTRUCTION, AS THE DO ALSO THE REST OF THE SCRIPTURES.

  7. Here is my contribution regarding El:

  8. Here is part 2:

    I think you might find it interesting at least.

  9. Isaiah 9:5 Torah is correct! they would say because of Hebrew pronouns which is true but I say as a witness to the people in the churches that have holy bible Isaiah 9:6 this changing of words to make a man into a god (idol) this is the image of the beast that impersonates Christ that is deceiving millions of catholics, Christians, Mormons, Jehovah witnesses and many others. there are two identical jesus Christ revelation 17:8. the mother church is rome called mystery Babylon the great mother of harlots abominations of the earth. Her harlots the churches on the earth which is the fourth kingdom and beast according to Daniel chapter 2,7-9. this message is not a joke. the mother church and her harlots follow another jesus and doctrine. Romans 1:verse 23,And changed the glory of the uncorruptible G-d into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and four footed beasts, and creeping things. Verse 25,Who changed the truth of G-d into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen

    Get OUT of all churches of catholics Christians, Jehovah witnesses, mornons, etc. NOW! the people in all churches will be infected by the spiritual plagues revelation 9! Seek G-d in prayer for the truth. the outpouring of G-d’s sealing is coming in the homes of G-d’s people and will happen before Revelation 9:1. Read Ezekiel chapter 8 & 9! I am witness to seeing beast ascended out of bottomless pit and in perdition. I am witness to seeing people in the churches worship this image as they read or hear my testimony! people of the earth have less than two years. that last year Great tribulation. Out of that last year- last day and hour of earth! Get out of the churches and reject the image and teachings of this other jesus! Seek G-d NOW in prayer for the truth! hear my testimony on video just google, “Christ testimony of the churches around the world”

  10. Hi Kaleef. I’m a Christian who believes in the Trinity (God the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit). I can appreciate where you are coming from, but I have to disagree. In Isaiah 9:6, although it reads like it’s being spoken in past or present tense while referring to the scriptures “”For unto us a child is born, to us a son is given”, it’s meaning is referring to it being a gift or promise of what’s to come. That’s easy to see because we see in the remaining verses it’s speaking in future tense (not past or present tense). “He will be called”.., “He will reign on David’s thrown”…”From that time on forever and ever”. We know that this passage hasn’t been accomplished yet in this world. This passage clearly says that there will be no end to this time of peace and that it will last forever. We can definately agree that that type of peace hasnt occured yet right? So it would have to mean future tense. Secondly, if only the phrase “Mighty God” was used as a description of who is being spoken about here, and not all of the other descriptions used, you would be right in that it may simply imply that this person is human and not of a divine nature. The other descriptions- Wonderful Counselor, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace… all comprise the trinity. The Holy Spirit is a part of God who is often referred to as The Comforter, or Counser in the scriptures. Jesus is described as the Prince of Peace, and of course, the Father is God the Father. Christians don’t believe this is blashemy, because when we read the scriptures in the old and new testament , it makes sense to us. As far as being “equals”, Jesus called himself the Son of God, not God. While Jesus was on earth, he always prayed to God as his “Father”, and when it was his time to lay down his life for humankind, he was severely distraught and prayed to the Father to take that path away from him. Yet, he ended up saying, “Not my will, but yours”. So in that sense they were not equals, but still part of one divine nature. The Holy Spirit was inside Jesus as well, but not able to come into mankind until after Jesus’ death and resurrection. I know you’ve probably heard of an egg having three parts, but it’s worth mentioning. The yolk, shell, and whites are all part of one egg. The egg having 3 parts doesn’t negate it being an egg, nor does an egg negate having 3 separate parts that make up the egg. Each part has its “role” if you will, but all three parts are valid and necessary.
    As far as when Jesus talked about not bringing peace, but a sword, you have to look at the meaning of what he was saying, not just the words. He was meaning that he will not sacrifice God’s truth for the sake of mankind having unity with one another. We are to follow God first, and let our relationship with God flow into our relationships with our fellow humans (not the other way around). Jesus was using irony to get us to understand that peace comes at a price and that we have to be willing to pay that price in order to have it. The peace Isaiah 9:6 speaks of is the same peace Jesus refers to. Through peace with Christ at that time when he will be reigning, our relationship with him will flow out towards others, but it has to be through him first. We can try to have that unity with others now, but we often fall short. But, when the time Isaiah 9:6 happens, we’ll be able to have that because we will be in complete unity with God.

Trackbacks

  1. Isaiah 7-8 | Prophecy of Immanuel and the Virgin Birth | Steve Gregg | The Surf Report
  2. Does Micah 5:2 Prove The Messiah is God? | Discover The Truth
  3. Day 199: Isaiah 7-9; The Sign of Immanuel | Overisel Reformed Church
  4. Day 210: Isaiah 43-44; Our Only Savior | Overisel Reformed Church
  5. Isaiah 7:14, Immanuel: Prophecy of Jesus? | Discover The Truth
  6. Tawhid, Tawheed Is No Where To Be Found In The Quran Or Hadith? – Discover The Truth
  7. Isaiah 7:14 Is Not a Prophecy Of Jesus? – Blogging Theology
  8. 1 John 5:7 And Matthew 28:19 – Fabricated Trinity Verses – Blogging Theology

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